• ~ Secretary ~

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    Morbidia [sign in to see picture]
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    I've been meaning to ask for a while now, but what are everyone's opinions on the movie Secretary?

    I've found that everyone seems to love this film, but also that the opinions on the whole scenario between Edward and Lee, and the reasons why Edward does what he does, and the effect that it has on Lee, and what it does for Lee, differ very greatly.

    Some people see it as a good thing, some people see it as a bad thing.

    Sooooo, discuss people ^_^

    x x x

    1248665123
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    Most of the kinky people I know love this film and consider it to be an excellent mainstream portrayal of kink.

    However, I have huge problems with it because the entire basis for the relationship between Edward and Lee is unconsensual and an abuse of the employer/employee relationship. When I mention this to the kinky people I know, most of them respond with something like "Oh yeah, I forgot about that."

    I know that consent isn't always a big deal for everybody. But for me transgression of consent is a huge deal and my biggest ever turn-off, so that is mostly what has stuck with me when I think about this film. Because of the transgression of consent, nothing else in the film really matters to me, so I can't comment on it.

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    SEXYGET 69 [sign in to see picture]
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    Yes they do cross trhe boundries of conduct in the workplace but theirs is a unique workplace love affair in which the roles of dominance and submission suit them both perfectly. They do slowly come together and she does discover another side to her sexuality. I love this movie, brilliant.

    You can think too deeply about movies though can't you? and rip them to pieces. I mean a grown man flying around with his red undies over his pants, what's that all about? Cracking film though.

    SG69 x

    1248685228
    LadiesMan [sign in to see picture]
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    I really love it Morbida.... the film totally opened my eyes into a different side to sex, and even though we've yet to incorporate it into our sex lives, the wife and i have watched it together and for me - would be an ultimate sex game (kinda like CBman's chastity play)

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    mybadx [sign in to see picture]
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    Just checked through the dvd colection and we have this film but ive never watched it.
    So since the OH has departed back to work today, il have an early night and watch it

    Will let you know tomorrow

    xx

    1248689777

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    LOVE IT!!!!

    I think like any mainstream movie, it's never going to depict real life accurately. There's always an element of poetic license because it makes the story flow better.

    Love your new piccie Morbidia!

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    TLA [sign in to see picture]
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    I didn't like the first time I watched it. But maybe my experience was ruined by the fact that my parents were in the house and even though they didn't sit and watch with me and my girlfriend, ever now and then they would come by to get something from the living room, so they saw some of the "nicer" scenes. Maybe I should watch it again, just with my OH this time.

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    I agree that fictional stories tend to vary from reality. My personal objection is that social kink is so very rarely portrayed in mainstream, it's mostly pro doms and their clients. Kink only makes the news when it's abusive or results in a death or injury and it is reported pruriently, sensationally, and salaciously. Kink is almost never portrayed in mainstream as an acceptable model for relationships.

    I think this media slant supports people tut-tutting as if kink is bad in itself, which helps others to marginalise it as well as those of us who are oriented that way. I also think this attitude supports responses such as the one to that bow you mentioned in the other thread.

    So here is one of only a tiny few mainstream examples of kink, and they just had to have significant transgressions of consent, as if this wasn't already a problem which is steroetyped?

    I mean, sure, fiction is fiction, but if a new fictional story published today portrayed a Jew as money hungry with a big hooked nose, then fiction or not, I don't think that would be acceptable as "poetic license", do you?

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    Oh mega agree, but then what does the media do right? Depiction of normal body shapes? Ha! Depiction of normal relationships? Ha! Etc etc!

    Nah I think there are still mega stereotypes all over the place. What about My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Funny but hardly a good depiction of real Greek Americans.

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    I think the media do a good job of portraying an incredibly diverse variety of sexual relationships in vanilla styles in social contexts outside the sex industry.

    I think the media do a good job of portraying many kinds of kink relationships within the sex industry.

    I think the media do an incredibly poor job portraying sexual kink relationships in which the woman is in charge in social contexts which are outside the sex industry,.

    The Secretary is many people's first exposure to kink, as has already been mentioned in this thread. Establishing transgression of consent with no negotiation whatsoever as standard behaviour for kink or any sexuality in general is setting a terrible example. I appreciate that the media have no obligation to set any example of any kind. Nevertheless, I feel excluded and marginalised by most portrayals of kink.

    For me, being "out" means that on a regular basis, some uninformed person will assume and treat me like a sex worker, because according to the media, the only kinky women in charge in their relationships are pro doms. The fact that I am on the receiving end of these kind of ignorant assumptions on a regular basis is a testament to the fact that more diverse and respectful portrayals of kink and sexual diversity in general need to be made. We can only all benefit from this, including the audience of your bow thingy in the other thread.

    Yes, this is a recurring issue for me. Could you tell? :p

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    imeldaimelda wrote:

    Nah I think there are still mega stereotypes all over the place. What about My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Funny but hardly a good depiction of real Greek Americans.

    Oh, by the way, I enjoyed that film. In the DVD extras, the film was described as being about the author's true experiences with her family. The author was also the female lead. Many of the scenes resonated with me and represented familiar situations which I have experienced as part of my Jewish family.

    Do you know so many Greek Americans that you know for sure that the film is not representative of them?

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    I enjoyed it too and no I don't know any Greek Americans! BUT I know it was heavily criticised by many for that reason and was using it as an example. I just think the media stereotypes waaaaaaaay too much so I just take it all with a big pinch of salt. Hence my reaction to Secretary.

    *throws a tuna sandwich in the opposite direction to the rant*

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    imeldaimelda wrote:

    *throws a tuna sandwich in the opposite direction to the rant*

    I've got an amazing attention span, and you cannot distract me with your ...

    Ooooh, look, tuna sandwich! *scampers off tuna sandwich-wards*

    1248709019

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    *snigger* good stuff someone else can debate this thread with you next

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    LoveHoney - Carly wrote:
    It also helps that Edward is strangely attractive too... men in suits... mmmmm!

    Damn I'd forgotten that. He is HOT!

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    OperationFilth [sign in to see picture]
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    Ive always thought James Spader has something about him anyway, and in Secretary it really doesn't hurt (unintentional pun there) that he's dominant and spanky... heh.

    As for the whole consent issue... I don't know, I've always viewed it as the first time it wasn't consentual (which is a bit... dodgy - but again poetic license) but the ones after that, as i see it were - most of the time she was actively trying to get him to 'punish' her! (The errors, the worm anyone?!)

    I have to say as a film, I loved it.. I could easily watch it again in fact! Might well do that later! (But then again maybe not, always makes me a bit on the horny side... lol)

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    Morbidia [sign in to see picture]
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    Does anyone view Edwards actions as him actually trying to help Lee out of a self destructive cycle?

    Obviously, exchanging one form of self harm, for technically another, isnt the best way to do so, but what does anyone think on that?

    I've found that depending upon peoples "life experiences" so-to-speak, their views on this vary alot.

    All views appreciated :)

    x x x

    And thankies imelda, im pleased you like the pic ^_^

    1248731717
    OperationFilth [sign in to see picture]
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    Morbidia wrote:

    Does anyone view Edwards actions as him actually trying to help Lee out of a self destructive cycle?

    Obviously, exchanging one form of self harm, for technically another, isnt the best way to do so, but what does anyone think on that?

    I've found that depending upon peoples "life experiences" so-to-speak, their views on this vary alot.

    All views appreciated :)

    x x x

    And thankies imelda, im pleased you like the pic ^_^

    Yeah totally, in fact was one of the first things the mr said when he saw that bit of the film - replacing her self harm with another form of pain... i can empathise, in a way, as a former (recovered) self harmer how that could work. It's certainly something that made a lot of sense to me - and Edward's influence on Lee was incredibly significant in that he got her to take what is commonly the hardest step of all for SHers, to bin her SH kit. It's a huge day, when the paraphenalia can all go in the bin - it's like being able to say both to yourself and the world that you don't need SH anymore. *speaks from experience*

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    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    to be honest i loved the moviewhen i first saw it, it was my first introduction to the sub.dom relationships . but thinking about it now the consent thing is an issue

    re replacing the SI (self injury) with another kind of pain, she was vunerable when they had the first encounter. for quite a few people (me included) when you cant get to your "kit" to SI you just used whatever you had ( i used to cut/burn/ hair pull/take medicines and all sorts), and sometimes youre that vinerable that you just want someone to love you, in any way or form.

    yes it is liberating to say enough is anough with SI/SH but its got to be done for you and not someone else.

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    Morbidia [sign in to see picture]
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    LF, that's how i saw it aswell, and from your response, it shows that mainly its people who are/were SHers, who can understand and empathise with the situation, and what Edward does for Lee :)

    x x x

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