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  1. BISEXUAL CHAT

    1244128304
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: General
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    pisces_male wrote:

    Just thought I'd add a bit more ......... I realise that many people will find it incredible that certain things in marriage or close relationships are just NOT up for discussion.

    [...] in the past I have tried to bring up the subject of sex toys, different positions, different locations etc ( things that others might find totally routine within their relationships ) and each time I have been met with stoney silence and a day or two of cold stares and indifference afterwards.

    I'm wondering, pisces_male, if you never considered these issues before, do you think that your sleepless night indicates that you would like to start considering them?

    I know that a lot of people feel strongly about infidelity. Actually, I personally feel fine about my partners being with other people. What does bother me a lot (and I suspect most people) is dishonesty, deception, prevarication, lying, and pertinent omission. I've heard about "don't ask don't tell" relationships (aka DADT). Although DADT isn't a model I'm prepared to follow, I accept that it works for some people.

    I'm guessing that you have never queried your wife regarding her silence, coldness, and indifference to your suggestions of sexual adventure, have you? If either or both of you knew exactly what it was about your suggestions which bothered her, perhaps that is an issue you could work around together. I'm guessing that if you could find a way to get what you want and also be honest with your wife, you'd do that, wouldn't you? I wouldn't begin by discussing your adventures with other men straight away, but I do feel that investigating the causes behind your wife's cold, silent indifference to your sexual suggestions might be an excellent place to start.

    I wish you luck whichever road you choose.

    1244129926
    pisces_male [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Officer Cadet
    • Posts: 12
    • Joined: 2 Jun 2009

    Hello Lubyanka ..... No, after 40 years I know for a fact that there would be absolutely no point in trying to bring the subject up..... especially now that sex isn't an issue for her anymore.

    In the early days ( and even up to a few years ago ) I did query her about not liking other options and she always maintained that nothing else was necessary for a good sex life. It got to the point that if I bought the subject up I would be accused of harassing her.

    That is why,, in my naievety, I thought that having a little fun with another guy would allow me to get around the situation.
    My mind told me that as it wasn't with another woman I wasn't being unfaithful.

    I further reasoned that if she had ever decided to have a little fun with another woman then I honestly wouldn't have minded that ........ not that she would ever want to.

    If I was to even suggest 'other ways' for me to continue having some sort of sex life it would be Armageddon.... believe me. ( I won't even begin to tell you her attitude to same gender sex ). ........... and finally ( and I swear I honestly thought this ) that if I was very discreet then it would never hurt her because she would never know.

    I hope I haven't made her out to be some sort of ogre because that definitely isn't the case ... we really are best friends.
    She is a lovely ,lovely woman BUT because of her upbringing, sex always had to be in the bed, face to face and no other scenarios/toys required. Everything else is just a perversion. People who use sex toys are perverts.
    She just can't bring her mind around to understanding that there might be other ways.
    Too late now I'm afraid.

    1244131706
    JayGee [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Brigadier
    • Posts: 396
    • Joined: 26 Feb 2009

    pisces_male, I really do feel for you. What a terrible situation to be in - I cannot imagine. Is it really too late? Has your wife totally closed off herself to any discussion? You know, if you haven't spoken to her about how you feel, even slightly, she might be under the misapprehension that not only is everything OK, but that you too feel the same. Maybe she feels bound by the constraints of her upbringing and also feels that it's too late to change?

    I do wish you both well and hope that you find some kind of solution - either as a couple or with mediation - but remember that although your wife deserves consideration, you deserve to be happy too.

    1244132570
    pisces_male [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Officer Cadet
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    • Joined: 2 Jun 2009

    Thanks JayGee .... I really appreciate what you have to say.

    1244136106
    pisces_male [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Officer Cadet
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    • Joined: 2 Jun 2009

    Hi Nexas ...... No, I might have considered it if I was 10 years younger.
    My wife is 4 years older than me so neither of us are in the first flush of youth ..... or even the second flush if it comes to that lol.

    1244164603
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    pisces_male wrote:

    Hi Nexas ...... No, I might have considered it if I was 10 years younger.
    My wife is 4 years older than me so neither of us are in the first flush of youth ..... or even the second flush if it comes to that lol.

    To me, the idea that counselling is pointless beyond a certain age sounds like the idea that visits to a physician are pointless beyond a certain age. I think that the mind is certainly every bit as worth caring for as the body - at any age.

    1244208728

    [suspended user]

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    I know it can become a vicious circle when communication ends - but it still must be worth a try to sit her down and ( without blame) ask her why she finds sex so unnecessary and unappealing? 60 isn't old anymore and unless she has health problems she could enjoy sex for another 20 years or more.

    When my hubby finally spoke up about how he felt it was the catalyst for repairing our relationship , we have been together for 25 years since the age of 17 - he had always thought that I just wasn't very interested in sex and that he was a poor lover, he had just grown accustomed to sex on my terms, the few days a month when I felt like it. I always enjoyed it but it wasn't a very high priority for me , plus teenagers and shift work didn't make much time for sex any easier. It never occured to me that my husband would have liked more sex, he never made an issue of it , even a few months down the line, he finds it difficult to tell me he wants me - I mean to actually say the words of what he would like.

    Perhaps she has been oblivious because you've never really pushed the issue with her , it took a few days of talking to get the whole truth of how my husband felt out of him, probably because he was scared of how I would react, we have never really talked about sex at all and I've made a real effort to be much more open and to say what I need from sex and I'm encouraging him to do the same.

    It can be a bit frustrating because he now says there's nothing he "needs" because he's getting everything he ever wanted from me - which is mainly just showing him my love and affection freely.

    I still have terrible feelings of guilt but as my husband says, he was just as much "at fault" for not talking about things for so long.

    If you don't talk to her, you will never know if things could improve on the sex front.

    1244212663
    pisces_male [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Officer Cadet
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    • Joined: 2 Jun 2009

    OK :-))

    You've all convinced me ..... I'll give it a try.

    1244217869
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    This doesn't have to be about sex, and indeed I think it probably isn't, I think that sex is just the symptom of other issues.

    I think this is most likely more about your bond as human beings, and how you communicate. Since you described your wife's strong unpleasant responses to even the mention of sex, it might be better to leave the sex part out of it as you explore the other ways you relate together.

    I wish you every success.

    1244226190
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    I was just thinking - in order to meet her needs to avoid the very topic of sex, means that your needs to address the topic of sex go unmet. So you could start by talking to her about her need to avoid the topic of sex, will she please talk to you about that, and why your need to address it is unwittingly conflicting with hers.

    I mean, I think that this is a case of two contradictory needs clashing, rather than a case of two people at loggerheads, if you see the difference? It isn't that you're clashing head to head on something, I think that you're both just trying to get your needs met. I think that this is creating a situational conflict which has emotive fallout, rather than an emotive conflict which has situational fallout.

    I hope that made some sense.

    1244231264
    pisces_male [sign in to see picture]
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    Thanks redapple ..... nice practical advice, especially on the toys front.

    BUT ( here we go again ) I know what her attitude to sex toys is and that would mean I would have to hide them.

    I already know from the very short experience I have had on this site, that the very mention of hiding things from a partner will inevitably set myself up again as a target.

    She isn't a practising catholic anymore ( and I am not anyway ) ...... and to be honest if we were, the last place on earth I would go for advice on sexual relationships is to a celibate catholic priest.
    it's their like that has caused this situation in the first place.

    I think I'm going off sex at the moment..... it's just too darn complicated.

    1244231511
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    Oh, that reminds me, thank you redapple :)

    pisces_male, I strongly believe that the need which sex most meets in us isn't the need to orgasm or experience pleasure, I think sex fulfills the very basic and primal human need to experience the frequent affectionate touch of other human beings. Babies are known to fail to thrive or even die if they aren't being held frequently enough, even if all their other needs are being met.

    So I think you might actually get somewhere if you discuss affectionate touch with your wife. I strongly believe that if you get enough affectionate touch from her, even without sex, your desires for sex with other people will seriously drop like a stone. Maybe not completely, but a lot.

    So please consider the touch thing. I promise you, it's more important than you think.

    Ok, putting the thread down now ... ;)

    1244233743

    [suspended user]

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    The points Lubyanka has made about touch are the most pertinent I feel - that's why me and my hubby had relationship problems, I virtually cut myself off from any physical contact at all, no cuddles or kisses, no holding hands and it hurt him more than anything else.

    He told me that the only time he felt he could touch me ( without me shrugging him off) was when I had fallen asleep and then he would cuddle up to me - that honestly broke my heart. I was in such a dark place that I never even realised what I had been doing to him.

    Do you sleep together in the same bed and have cuddles even?

    1244234891
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    Lady Lara wrote:

    He told me that the only time he felt he could touch me ( without me shrugging him off) was when I had fallen asleep and then he would cuddle up to me - that honestly broke my heart. I was in such a dark place that I never even realised what I had been doing to him.

    Oh, wow, Lady Lara, that's such a sad story. I'm delighted it has a happy ending. :)

    However bad things were before, I'm so very glad you've resolved that now. I think this is a great example that people can improve how they relate together no matter how long an issue has been ongoing. I think that a lot of people feel that if something has persisted for a long time, there's no point in addressing it. I wish more of them felt differently, I'm sure we'd all be a lot happier. I hope that can happen for pisces_male.

    1244234950
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    damn, forgot to bold your name Lady Lara, sorry.

    1244237603

    [suspended user]

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    Thank you Lubyanka - I'm very glad it's all been resolved too.

    Communication with the person you love most in the in the world should be the easiest thing but it so often isnt. We were actually both in a bad place as individuals and had each retreated into our own little world of pain and selfishness.

    I do hope it's not too late for Pisces male and his wife to sort out some kind of solution, the situation as it stands is unfair to both of them.

    1245160589
    angelarwen [sign in to see picture]
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    Wow, I've been away from the boards for a while and missed all of this.

    I'm sorry to hear about the reasons behind your experiences with men pisces, I have also had problems with my OH being very closed-off about sex and he won't try many new things to spice things up. While I know there are things he won't ever be ok with, things have improved slightly of late and I'm much happier as a result. However, I can totally sympathise with your problems and, also, the fact that being young when you and your wife met meant you never had that chance to experiment like many people do.

    For my part, I feel that technically, yes, you are cheating. Having said that, I'm afraid I am sometimes a firm believer in 'what they don't know can't hurt them'. That may seem morally wrong, but I also feel that telling people something which may shake their world and ruin their life can be wrong if their not knowing won't eventually have the same effect.

    I consider myself extremely lucky to be in a relationship where there is a massive amount of love but the sex is also, while sometimes infrequent and not as adventurous as I'd like, amazing. I also know how lucky I am that my OH understands and accepts my attraction to women and would even be willing to indulge me - and not just for personal gain. Many men would be happy if a threesome was on the table, but less so if their gf /wife wanted to sleep with another woman without involving him. I don't mean to generalise here men, so please don't be offended if this doesn't apply in your case.

    As I've said earlier in this thread, I couldn't cheat on my OH because I love him too much to betray him, but I think that if it's done with his consent it is no longer cheating. As some others have said, they also have relationships (whether that be sexual or simply affectionate) with other people with the consent of their main partners. As long as it's an arrangement everyone is happy with, there is not problem.

    I'm rambling, sorry! Anyway pisces, I can certainly see your side of this and, while I don't feel I would be unfaithful to my partner, I can see that in some circumstances it can be difficult not to be.

    1248007528
    heypete [sign in to see picture]
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    I can sympathise with Pieces, although my timescales are much shorter. My OH never instigates or starts any kissing, touching or sex. I've talked to her time and time again and she just seems to feel 'nothing' when it comes to being horny and starting / wanting sex. My initial reaction was that she didn't want me anymore, but she assures me she does. She gets horny on her own and plays now and again (she has a vibrator so shes not prude) but never takes this further when shes with me. It sounds like all I want is her to jump on me for sex but its actually got a huge deal to do with the emotional side of things (god I sound so soppy!)

    I read once that men need sex to feel wanted and women need to feel wanted to have sex, so on that basis somethings got to give. She loves the sex we have when I start things, having multiple orgasms during, so I can't figure out why you would not want more or want to start the motions during a quiet night in.

    Unfortunately this has had a huge effect on me, making me very depressed and feeling unattractive and unwanted. I think this has had a major effect on my bi curiousity as all my fantasies involve being the 'centre of attention' if you get my drift. Whether I'll ever act on them (paranoid about STD's etc) is another thing, but the lack of interest from my OH has really pushed me away. Perhaps in my head M-on-M wouldn't be such a bad 'cheat' although I do realise any other person is cheating. I think it all comes down to being made to feel wanted.

    1260307457
    Noon [sign in to see picture]
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    Is it ok to dip into this thread?

    I was being good and did a search before starting a new thread, but this one drifted a wee bit and not I am wondering.

    1260575487
    Noon [sign in to see picture]
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    Looks like it is just thee and me AA! :)

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