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  1. Relationships and Race

    1288623849
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    I've just finished listening to a documentary called 'Black and Single' which follows the difficulty college educated black women have in finding a partner.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p009yfwg/Assignment_Black_and_Single/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11434399

    Many college educated black women in the US are failing to find partners due to the discrepancies in female and male college education rates for black men and women. Also making it more difficult for college educated back women is that the fewer Coll-Ed black men are much more likely to marry outside their own race than black women, further reducing the number of black CollEd men available. 14% and 4.5% 'out' rates.

    What struck me was how race was such an important factor (land of equality ey USA?) with one woman claiming white men don't understand black women. It seems odd interracial relationships just didn't seem an option for these women. There was talk of maybe marrying black men not college educated but not really of marrying white men... It all seems so strange to me because I've never really considered people of different races as people of a race. Granted, we are all likely to have our own personal preferences when it comes to looks but why is race such an issue for these people? Does anyone else feel the same?

    One explanation is obviously cultural. Of course many religious people for example marry within their community, I couldn't marry in to such a community because of how I feel about the religious practices, because that person understands the demands required of them by their culture (I'm not one for demands of other people either).

    Is race an important factor for anyone here? I don't think we're the most representative bunch but is it? Are these women just too demanding and are treating love like shopping? Is it just a case of finding a partner with similar interests and experiences/views? Is America just backwards!?

    I always feel like I have more to add on big posts like this...

    1288624547
    Carousel [sign in to see picture]
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    Culture is more of an issue to me.

    My ex-boyfriend (before my now Husband) was British born with Pakistani parents. He was mostly very 'British' (if that's not too general) in his feelings and mannerisms towards things, but then he had some very strong opinions about other things, that completely conflicted with British culture, and my culture.

    We fell in love as two British teenagers, but as things progressed, his Islamic beliefs and Pakistani culture became more and more apparent, and too that of his family. It just wasn't working and I was becoming very miserable, although I was attracted to him, the cultural differences were too great when it came to the really important stuff.

    I never used to think of people as 'a certain race'. I am happily married now, but I do feel that if I were to be in the position of dating again, I would avoid someone similar to my ex because in the end we clashed too much and I was really trodden down and I couldn't go through that again.

    I don't wish to offend anyone of any race, but this is based on a very real and very upsetting experience.

    1288625550
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    MrsP wrote:

    Culture is more of an issue to me.

    My ex-boyfriend (before my now Husband) was British born with Pakistani parents. He was mostly very 'British' (if that's not too general) in his feelings and mannerisms towards things, but then he had some very strong opinions about other things, that completely conflicted with British culture, and my culture.

    We fell in love as two British teenagers, but as things progressed, his Islamic beliefs and Pakistani culture became more and more apparent, and too that of his family. It just wasn't working and I was becoming very miserable, although I was attracted to him, the cultural differences were too great when it came to the really important stuff.

    I never used to think of people as 'a certain race'. I am happily married now, but I do feel that if I were to be in the position of dating again, I would avoid someone similar to my ex because in the end we clashed too much and I was really trodden down and I couldn't go through that again.

    I don't wish to offend anyone of any race, but this is based on a very real and very upsetting experience.

    Thank you for sharing your story. I don't see why anyone would be offended.

    My best friend is very much a 'British' Pakistani and I've not really known him to engage much with his Pakistani identity although his family are more observant. He sort of looks up to me though so I've explained many opinions and positions he may not otherwise have considered.

    I do sometimes try to talk about his family and culture but he doesn't really seem interested!

    1288625751
    Carousel [sign in to see picture]
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    Just didn't want anyone to think I was racist or anything!

    1288626831
    SEXYGET 69 [sign in to see picture]
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    Good question WandA!

    As some of the longer standing members will know, my OH is a black woman of mixed parentage. This is no issue to us/me/her whatsoever but it seems to be an issue with others now and again. We've had the odd comment shouted at us or funny look. When tackled on the subject they always strangely fail to give an answer, funny that isn't it! I still cannot believe it whenever it happens in this day and age and can I say it's nearly always uneducated, shallow minded bigots or somebody stuck in the past.

    In regards to white men don't understand black women there is one simple rule I have come to understand. . . . For fuck sake do not ever push her into a swimming pool ( I am a bastard for this!) or in any way shape or form get her hair wet! Trust me on that one

    When I first met my OH she was deffo a bit standoff-ish as I think a lot of white men dating black girls see it as a sort of trophy girlfriend and it probably works the other way around I would imagine. But unfortunately I wasn't interested in her skin colour. . . . .just her ass and tits! oh okay then her mind too.

    If it weren't for immigrants I wouldn't be here myself!

    So, no race isn't important to me or my partner. But racism is!

    SG

    1288627309
    SEXYGET 69 [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    I do sometimes try to talk about his family and culture but he doesn't really seem interested!

    You're just a nosey bastard!

    Seriously though. . . .I think a lot of people british born of non british parents actually don't give a shit and can't be arsed about their roots fella! They probably feel like they get it rammed down their necks by parents and relatives. I know a few people with Chinese and Indian (not at the same time mind you!) parents who feel that way. I myself would want to know everything.

    SG

    1288627517
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    SEXYGET 69 wrote:

    We've had the odd comment shouted at us or funny look. When tackled on the subject they always strangely fail to give an answer, funny that isn't it! I still cannot believe it whenever it happens in this day and age and can I say it's nearly always uneducated, shallow minded bigots or somebody stuck in the past.

    I found this too - I was 'commented on' by people in his community, when I (as a young white female) was the minority in an Asian-dominated area, and they would shout things at him in Hindi or Punjabi and cheer, made me feel like I was a prize he'd won. I found it very rude that not only were strangers commenting on us, they were doing so in a way that excluded me because I couldn't even understand what they were saying.

    1288627760
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    SEXYGET 69 wrote:

    Good question WandA!

    As some of the longer standing members will know, my OH is a black woman of mixed parentage. This is no issue to us/me/her whatsoever but it seems to be an issue with others now and again. We've had the odd comment shouted at us or funny look. When tackled on the subject they always strangely fail to give an answer, funny that isn't it! I still cannot believe it whenever it happens in this day and age and can I say it's nearly always uneducated, shallow minded bigots or somebody stuck in the past.

    In regards to white men don't understand black women there is one simple rule I have come to understand. . . . For fuck sake do not ever push her into a swimming pool ( I am a bastard for this!) or in any way shape or form get her hair wet! Trust me on that one

    When I first met my OH she was deffo a bit standoff-ish as I think a lot of white men dating black girls see it as a sort of trophy girlfriend and it probably works the other way around I would imagine. But unfortunately I wasn't interested in her skin colour. . . . .just her ass and tits! oh okay then her mind too.

    If it weren't for immigrants I wouldn't be here myself!

    So, no race isn't important to me or my partner. But racism is!

    SG

    Haha! You do make me chuckle SG!

    The 'trophy' idea is something interesting, I've never thought of anything like that. I'm glad you're a happy chap!

    1288628255
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    SEXYGET 69 wrote:

    WandA wrote:

    I do sometimes try to talk about his family and culture but he doesn't really seem interested!

    You're just a nosey bastard!

    Seriously though. . . .I think a lot of people british born of non british parents actually don't give a shit and can't be arsed about their roots fella! They probably feel like they get it rammed down their necks by parents and relatives. I know a few people with Chinese and Indian (not at the same time mind you!) parents who feel that way. I myself would want to know everything.

    SG

    It's funny how little he talks about his family (except his uncle who is a blind football international [and in a Paddy Power advert kicking a cat]! He's obsessed with footy... Reels stats from matches 8 years ago randomly).

    I think it is just existence for him, he lives two distinct parts of life but it's just normal to him. He does speak about girls and gives conflicting information. He was almost with an Asian girl but then generally speaks of girls in his community as a bit too tied up with tradition and things even though this girl was. He's a bit of a nutcase anyway though...

    1288631501
    Doug [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    SEXYGET 69 wrote:

    WandA wrote:

    I do sometimes try to talk about his family and culture but he doesn't really seem interested!

    You're just a nosey bastard!

    Seriously though. . . .I think a lot of people british born of non british parents actually don't give a shit and can't be arsed about their roots fella! They probably feel like they get it rammed down their necks by parents and relatives. I know a few people with Chinese and Indian (not at the same time mind you!) parents who feel that way. I myself would want to know everything.

    SG

    Was watching a comedy show, and there was a woman on stage of nigerian roots, talking about when she went for the first time to nigeria, and how she basicaly had no connection with the people there, ended with her saying her roots were in hackney (A bit in london) Was very well done but also gets across that point.

    I think that if someone wants to live in britain and be classed as british, then they should accept all british cultuers, not like, do them, but accept that thats part of life in the country they have chose to move to, and their own culter shouldn't undermine the british one, instead it should add to it, ie different foods (i'm hungry and it was the first thing i thought of)

    1288632409
    missorgasm [sign in to see picture]
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    Im very much a believer in its whats inside that counts, we may have different skin colours and different heritage, we all have feelings, are capable of love and and I believe that if you truly fall in love with some one nothing else matters, of course there may be hurdles to over come but they are usually from other small minded people who cant see past some ones rligious opinions or skin colour, not from the couple.

    Some things really annoy me when it comes to different cultures and heres one that i've voiced recently and been accused of being racist for-

    So, on the news, apparently the great british nativity play is being banned in alot of schools as its insulting children and parents from different religious backgrounds. what the ****!!! I AM NOT RELIGIOUS but as a country we are christian/catholic whatever, and things like the nativity are traditional for our children, religious or not!! its what we do! i would not move to india, put my child in school and complain about the local culture i would try to embrace another point of view and teach my child his own roots at home. it bugs me. alot. grrrr

    1288632414
    Ecksvie [sign in to see picture]
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    I think it all really depends on the person. It's easy to say we're all equal but are we really in our mind's eye?

    I'm not racist at all, but I can never see myself with someone who isn't white. It's not that I don't think people of other races can be attractive or that they're less of a person or anything like that, it's just something that seems to be hard-wired into me. I know it doesn't make sense. Perhaps I need the right non-white person to come along and convince me otherwise.

    I'm a big advocate of it being the personality that matters, but I do think intelligence also comes into it quite a bit too. I'm not saying that you can't be stupid but also well mannered, charming, thoughtful and all of the other things that a partner might want you to be, but I know as far as I'm concerned I want to be with someone who I can consider my intellectual equal.

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Doug wrote:

    Was watching a comedy show, and there was a woman on stage of nigerian roots, talking about when she went for the first time to nigeria, and how she basicaly had no connection with the people there, ended with her saying her roots were in hackney (A bit in london) Was very well done but also gets across that point.

    I think that if someone wants to live in britain and be classed as british, then they should accept all british cultuers, not like, do them, but accept that thats part of life in the country they have chose to move to, and their own culter shouldn't undermine the british one, instead it should add to it, ie different foods (i'm hungry and it was the first thing i thought of)

    I think I've seen that stand up... but I get so bored of comics going on about things like that, Stephen K Amos, Gina someone. It gets tedious knowing the next line in their routine.

    That's all very sketchy Doug. Accepting British culture is what exactly? Undermine a culture? Add to a culture? It's all very subjective. I think you need a loose moral/social framework but other than that I don't see what else should be dictated.

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    I'm lucky in a way - my mum went out of her way to make sure that I was very accepting of people. In a very white area, she encouraged my friendship as a young girl with a young black boy who's father she knew and she made sure I had black and white dolls. Maybe "selecting" him as a friend for me for that reason was slightly racist but she was doing it for long term benefit and I have to say, I guess it worked because now, I don't even notice race, it's not something I easily pick up on.

    Culture is something I will pick up on but people of the same race can be very culturally different so that's not race related to me.

    To me, the colour of your skin makes no difference whatsoever but your heritage is an important part of who you are - I'm fascinated by my heritage which is between Yorkshire and Derbyshire with family on the Derbyshire moving from Ireland around the time the big IRA issues started. WandA's dad does a lot of family history too and it's really interesting. I think if you have dual heritage there's even more to learn about but unfortunatly dual heritage is often seen as worse than just being from a "different" country.

    For me - it baffles me the way we have this "patriotism" - we are human! We're all from the same place, with the same basic similarites so why would we give anyone more or less respect than anyone else based purely on where they're from?

    Adx

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    CurlyCoupleWife [sign in to see picture]
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    My Aunt & Uncle have a holiday home in Georgia (USA) - they live in Canada the rest of the time, when I visited I found it striking how segregated their society is. Whilst I witnessed no viciousness as far as racism is concerned, there was a real sense of "them & us" from both sides of the equation. When my uncle had a black friend of his come over and stay they were stared at like an oddity when they were playing golf together.

    I hadn't realised how cosmopolitan the UK is until I travelled outside of it.

    I'm sure not all of USA is like my aunt & uncle's golfing community in the deep south, but it surprised me that any of the USA would tolerate it. There really isn't the same fear or avoidance of being perceived as racist that most people in the UK have.

    So no, it doesn't surprise me that race is a huge issue for these women, but if you'd have asked me before I'd been there it would have. Whilst there are people in the UK who spoil it, for the most part we judge people on merit rather than race & I'm pleased.

    CCW x

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    CurlyCoupleWife wrote:

    My Aunt & Uncle have a holiday home in Georgia (USA) - they live in Canada the rest of the time, when I visited I found it striking how segregated their society is. Whilst I witnessed no viciousness as far as racism is concerned, there was a real sense of "them & us" from both sides of the equation. When my uncle had a black friend of his come over and stay they were stared at like an oddity when they were playing golf together.

    I hadn't realised how cosmopolitan the UK is until I travelled outside of it.

    I'm sure not all of USA is like my aunt & uncle's golfing community in the deep south, but it surprised me that any of the USA would tolerate it. There really isn't the same fear or avoidance of being perceived as racist that most people in the UK have.

    So no, it doesn't surprise me that race is a huge issue for these women, but if you'd have asked me before I'd been there it would have. Whilst there are people in the UK who spoil it, for the most part we judge people on merit rather than race & I'm pleased.

    CCW x

    I guess in America poverty is on an almost industrial scale, it can seem a very plausible view to hold that someone of a different race is more likely to kill/mug you... because they probably are. Not because they're black but because they're poor. Although we have issues concerning wealth distribution and race in the UK it's not to the same scale and doesn't lead to such segregation. I guess these type of rationalisations help keep the status quo.

    Of course I'm not saying all black people are muggers etc but crime rates in certain communities will be higher, those of poverty and deprivation, it's just a shame race is such an obvious indicator of such a deprived community where as it's unlikely someone could distinguish 'trailer trash' as easily.

    I realise this may be worded rather poorly, for that I apologise.

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    CurlyCoupleWife [sign in to see picture]
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    correlation vs causation again?

    There seemed to be a strong link between low-paid jobs & colour over there so I can see where you're coming from.

    I think we're incredibly lucky over here regarding equal opportunities (not just regarding race). You sometimes don't realised what you've got until you're faced with its absence.

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    CurlyCoupleWife wrote:

    correlation vs causation again?

    There seemed to be a strong link between low-paid jobs & colour over there so I can see where you're coming from.

    I think we're incredibly lucky over here regarding equal opportunities (not just regarding race). You sometimes don't realised what you've got until you're faced with its absence.

    Yep. Poverty is a cycle (doesn't help when doing anything vaguely resembling charity or helping people means you're dirty Commie scum). Perhaps this is too harsh but it seems much of America with a unofficial and unwanted policy of apartheid. You notice here how the kids going to crap schools do, well, crap!

    I think it does raise interesting questions about integration and multiculturalism (although maybe not in the US concerning African Americans). I think a society can only 'absorb' so many from another culture before they self marginalise and are marginalised by wider society and immigrant communities naturally often enter another country at the bottom of the social ladder.

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    chipNroll [sign in to see picture]
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    A lot of people seem to think racism and not wanting to 'mix' is a only found in white communities but I come from an extremely multicultural area and I'm not surprised by what the documentary said at all. I don't think it's necessarily just in America. I know some black people who look down on mixed relationships and in particular women can get angry at white women for taking 'their men'. I think some black families would disapprove if their children brought home a non-black partner, in the same way that some white families still would if their child introduced a black bf/gf. I even heard some young black boys talking on a bus about how they would 'fuck a white girl but you can't touch a black girl- cos that's gonna be someone's wife someday' :/.

    I found it all quite strange when I started to notice because I've been brought up with members of every race in my close family, as well as friends at school. People being different colours and having mixed-race relationships was always the norm for me and it makes me kind of angry the way people (of all races) try to insist on segregation with their subtle racism.

    I can kind of see why people would prefer to 'stick to their own'- I don't have a racial preference when it comes to men but for serious relationships I'd like if the person was culturally/religiously similar to me (like MrsP said). But if I did happen to fall for someone from a completely different culture and we were both willing to work at the differences, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with, or object to, that.

    Some of my cousins are mixed race and apparently the black side of their family treat them less favourable than their cousins, who have two black parents. And during an argument referred to them as 'white trash kids'. I was really shocked because on our side of the family they've never been treated any different. I also have a cousin who is half Asian. She doesn't even know her Father's family because they wouldn't approve. I think it's only really an issue in people with a strong sense of cultural identity; and most British people seem to have a more diluted cultural indentity imo which is why it's more acceptable.

    I could ramble on for ages about this topic and my experiences of it. It's so complex and interesting.

    1288665411
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    chipNroll wrote:

    A lot of people seem to think racism and not wanting to 'mix' is a only found in white communities but I come from an extremely multicultural area and I'm not surprised by what the documentary said at all. I don't think it's necessarily just in America. I know some black people who look down on mixed relationships and in particular women can get angry at white women for taking 'their men'. I think some black families would disapprove if their children brought home a non-black partner, in the same way that some white families still would if their child introduced a black bf/gf. I even heard some young black boys talking on a bus about how they would 'fuck a white girl but you can't touch a black girl- cos that's gonna be someone's wife someday' :/.

    I found it all quite strange when I started to notice because I've been brought up with members of every race in my close family, as well as friends at school. People being different colours and having mixed-race relationships was always the norm for me and it makes me kind of angry the way people (of all races) try to insist on segregation with their subtle racism.

    I can kind of see why people would prefer to 'stick to their own'- I don't have a racial preference when it comes to men but for serious relationships I'd like if the person was culturally/religiously similar to me (like MrsP said). But if I did happen to fall for someone from a completely different culture and we were both willing to work at the differences, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with, or object to, that.

    Some of my cousins are mixed race and apparently the black side of their family treat them less favourable than their cousins, who have two black parents. And during an argument referred to them as 'white trash kids'. I was really shocked because on our side of the family they've never been treated any different. I also have a cousin who is half Asian. She doesn't even know her Father's family because they wouldn't approve. I think it's only really an issue in people with a strong sense of cultural identity; and most British people seem to have a more diluted cultural indentity imo which is why it's more acceptable.

    I could ramble on for ages about this topic and my experiences of it. It's so complex and interesting.

    I could have a partner who was culturally different to me - in fact, in a way, I do - my OH is from a very working class background and I'm from a very middle class background - our cultures are worlds apart, the differences are amazing!

    However religion is a different matter. I don't think I could date someone religious - not because I dislike religious people, what you believe is your choice, but for me, it's something I feel passionately about and it wouldn't work as a relationship.

    One of the funniest things I ever heard was a chavvy girl wining on and on about some trouble she'd had with some girls and her mate...her final line was "and then they called T racist, I mean, T can't be racist...she's black!"

    Funny on so many levels - one the comment in itself is racist, and two racism happens every where against every group. Every type of prejudice has to stop but for it to stop, it has to be properly understood and apparently, many things aren't understood by many people!

    Adx

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