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  1. episiotomy

    1284420446
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    I'd be interested what the uptake number is for women having second children who tore the first time around, knowing how painful even minor tearing can be and how much of a nightmare it is to heal (what with even slight movement reopening it) at least a clean cut is easier to stitch. Though they do stitch major tears too.

    Adx

    1284420688
    shellyboo [sign in to see picture]
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    Vampyrewillow wrote:

    Haha good point, i think the way its handled isn't correct though, obviously i don;t know from first hand so this is just me basically saying hmm it should be a last resort rather than a precaution,

    i think i would rather go for a chance of a tear, than 100% chance of a cut if you know what i mean, but as i don't plan on children it doesn't matter, this is why i wanted opinion because obviously the boards and things i was reading only had the negative not the positive, nobody goes online to say how great something was so i figured get some perspective before i came to an opinion,

    i just realised i haven't even asked my mother her thoughts yet, duh!

    *toddles downstairs to ask the most obvious person*

    VW x

    Yeah, I know what you mean -- funny I would be the opposite! I'd go for a cut over *any* chance of a tear. That's speaking as someone who does hope to have kids someday. But then I've read a lot that says if you have strong PC muscles, do lots of conditioning and Kegels, that you might get away with no cutting or tearing. I'm quite fastidious about Kegel exercises and I think if I got pregnant I would invest in a proper Kegel exerciser to make labour easier for myself. I would be worried about a loss of tightness after childbirth, that would be devastating for me.

    1284420799
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Vampyrewillow wrote:

    I'm so glad i have no maternal instincts!

    VW

    (btw if anyone is sat there thinking hang on she wants to work with kids, i do love kids to pieces but being a mother is not for me)

    VW x

    *Thinks VW just plans on stealing a few kids to save herself from the excruciating pain!*

    1284422590
    *Emma* [sign in to see picture]
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    I had such bad issues during birth with my daughter in hospital i opted for a home birth with my son. I had contractions from the monday to thursday, irregular but painful and when my waters went i went into hospital to be checked over. They informed me that i wasnt dilating, that it would be hrs yet and to go home - which i did. However upon getting home, only a 10 min journey via car maximum i felt the urge to push but was told not to on the phone already so we returned to hospital and they told me i was fully dilated, gone from 0-10cm in the space of approx 25 mins (alhtough my midwife told me i had obviously not been checked properly as this is very unlkely especialy for a first labour) by which point my contractions stopped and i was put onto a drip to restart them. After a short while when the contractions were becoming regular again they then told me my contractions were taking too long and prepared me for a c-section, something i was seriously against as i was pain relief. So they ended up attempting forceps which didnt work and doing an episiotomy and using a suction cup to get her out as they were so impatient with me doing it naturally. The stitches healing were v tender and i had to sit on a rubber ring for a few days after birth. I feel that if they hadnt been in such a rush to send me home when i originally went in i couldve had the completely natural birth i wanted without assistance (still didnt have pain relief) and avoided the episiotomy. Although my fella says my vagina isnt a problem and i dont feel we have issues with our sex life at all, i do personally worry about it a lot and like mentioned previously by kittycatgirl there is some tissue damage from this proceedure and i am constantly paranoid about its affects despite my fella saying there is no issue.

    Having said that if it were a choice between a tear and episiotomy id have chosen to have had it rather than risking earing to my anus or anything

    Sorry excuse the waffle!! x

    1284452188
    telemachus [sign in to see picture]
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    The issue is a wider one. Births are becoming more and more medical, more doctor led. We don't train enough midwives and don't employ enough. We don't properly train the ones that we have - many midwives are no longer trained in breech births, so these days it is routine for such births to be sections. A straightforward vaginal birth is safer than any other kind. But we seem to like doctors to be involved...and once you start intervention, it's a one way street to c-section.

    The benefit with tearing over episiotomy, assuming you tear a small amount, is that a natural tear that it not too large will heal by itself. If they have to cut, they will generally do so during a contraction. You feel squeemish about the idea, but you shouldn't feel it, the contraction will mask the pain. You also don't feel it if you tear. Once the baby is crowning, you feel as if you are tearing in half anyway, whether you are or not.

    I tore both times. The first time, I was stitched up and suffered no after effects. The second time, I tore less badly along the scar from the first time, but the tear healed quicjly by itself.

    Unfortunately, with birth, a lot depends on the hospital. Some are geared towards a more natural approach, better positions for birthing, not stitching if you don't need it, moving you along well. Others seem to be completeley different.

    You should remember that most women don't tear badly. Most women do not suffer afterwards with pain, or suffer after effects for years. You will likely have a straightforward birth. Most women do. And if you need to have a section, my advice - plan it, because an emergency is not nice.

    But most important of all:

    When you are giving birth, the last thing on your mind is if the episiotomy will hurt, or whether you will tear. All you want to do it get it over with. And the pain from an episiotomy, even if you were to have it now, for no reason, with no pain relief, does not come close to the real pain of childbirth. You will not care.

    1284452292
    sweetcherry24 [sign in to see picture]
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    While reading all the posts its actually making me squirm in my seat.

    I was very lucky enough to have cessarian in 1996, due to my son being premature by 2 months.

    But even if i wanted another baby, God it sure has put me off. i Knew women could tear or needed cut down there.

    but the thought of my bits being butchered like that, i think it would shatter my confidence. and i would worry that they just wouldnt look the same. i would be able to feel the same...

    Any more kids i will def be asking for a cessarian, i had no choice in the matter before. God i sound really selfish but sex and how i look and feel in my lady bits are very important to me. maybe thats why ive never had any more kids. im too scared.

    1284455114
    sexy little minx [sign in to see picture]
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    While in labour with my son the midwife told me she was going to have to cut me as she was sure I was going to tear. I really didn't want to be cut but she told me they would give me some local anesthetic and I wouldn't feel anything. I still wasn't keen so she talked me into having the anesthetic just incase she had to cut me. Getting the anesthetic was the best thing I could have done, it took the edge off and my son was born shortly after, no cutting and best of all, no tearing!

    1284458326
    telemachus [sign in to see picture]
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    But it isn't butchering!

    Yes some people have a bad experience. Yes, some people don't heal properly. But you are doing a massive disservice to the experience and the staff involved to say that they butcher your vulva, or that you rip open any time you move after having an episiotomy. Complications are rare. That is not to say that they do not happen, or that they are no big deal when they do happen, but for the majority of women in the majority of straightforward well managed births there is no issue.

    Small tears heal well. They are not a nightmare mostly. Usually, they heal well and you don't ever think about it again.

    A good bit of advice would be to make sure that someone competent stitches you. DO NOT allow a student to stitch you up. This is common, it is good practice for students, evidently vulvas aren't important enough to get right.....you want someone to do a good job.

    1284489106
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    telemachus wrote:

    You should remember that most women don't tear badly. Most women do not suffer afterwards with pain, or suffer after effects for years. You will likely have a straightforward birth. Most women do. And if you need to have a section, my advice - plan it, because an emergency is not nice..

    This is exactly my issue - I know I am one of the few that will not have a straight forward labour when I have kids so I know now, I'm not having them if I can't plan a C section before hand. I know I will end up a mess because I'm already a mess with no interference so labour is never going to agree with me - but as you say, my priority will be to plan a C section, build up a group of people who I trust and ensure things move as smoothly as possible. Obviously nature may intend other things, but at least if I have that planned it will mean less stress for me and ultimately less stress for baby....this is assuming I can have kids.

    Adx

    1284489756
    xxxxchelzsxxxx [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi, im 21 and i had my daughter at 19, and had one when i gave birth due to the fact she got stuck and had to be pulled out....i was petrified when they said id have to have one... but luckily i was compltly numb after having a spinal tap. I have found that after having her and the cut my sex life has been better... the first time after it had healed was abit nerve wracking but it all went fine!! now you couldnt even tell i had had one! apart from an ever so slight scar... i guess i was one of the lucky ones!!!

    1284490300
    KittyPurry [sign in to see picture]
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    Childbirth sounds like a scary, scary buisness. I am glad it's not something I'll ever experience but in terms of the epiostomy my thoughts are basically the same as with anything medical: do what the experts advise! In terms of cut vs tear - I would think a controlled, surgical cut is always going be less painful and quicker to heal than a messy tear.

    xxKPxx

    1284490627
    Despina Rose [sign in to see picture]
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    KittyPurry wrote:

    Childbirth sounds like a scary, scary buisness. I am glad it's not something I'll ever experience but in terms of the epiostomy my thoughts are basically the same as with anything medical: do what the experts advise! In terms of cut vs tear - I would think a controlled, surgical cut is always going be less painful and quicker to heal than a messy tear.

    xxKPxx

    I totally agree, cut vs tear, deffo cut. Dont think I want kids though so shouldnt need to make that decision but I would go with cut.

    1284490816
    Malteser81 [sign in to see picture]
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    I think its possible for ANYTHING to happen in life and a bd birth is just one minor thing we should worry about. Now I went through full enduced labour with my first for 48 hrs before being told she was stuck, went through a c section which l8r got v badly infected. 18 months after her my second came along...... with her I suffered an anurism during which I died, I cant remember over a week of my life or my daughter being born by yet another c section. I stayed in hospital for 3 weeks during which i washardly able to see my new btorn at all. After that time I was transfered to a hospital closer to home to look after my dauger in the maternaty ward upon where I was told on arrival I had major blood clots. My daugher went home, I stayed in that hospital for yet another 3 weeks and needed to be on blood thinners for 6 mnths with regular, sometimes daily blood tests at the hospital.

    Now I dont want any more kids but thats because of my life and what I want to be able to do for myself, however in so many ways I would not be scared or worried to have another. Pregnancy is a wonderful experiance and although I can understand ppl having no wish to have children is perfectly fine I certainly wouldnt want ppl who do want kids to be put off. Yes it CAN be traumatic but having such a wonderful outcome makes everything u have been though a distant memory.

    1284491339
    KittyPurry [sign in to see picture]
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    Malteser81 wrote:

    I think its possible for ANYTHING to happen in life and a bd birth is just one minor thing we should worry about. Now I went through full enduced labour with my first for 48 hrs before being told she was stuck, went through a c section which l8r got v badly infected. 18 months after her my second came along...... with her I suffered an anurism during which I died, I cant remember over a week of my life or my daughter being born by yet another c section. I stayed in hospital for 3 weeks during which i washardly able to see my new btorn at all. After that time I was transfered to a hospital closer to home to look after my dauger in the maternaty ward upon where I was told on arrival I had major blood clots. My daugher went home, I stayed in that hospital for yet another 3 weeks and needed to be on blood thinners for 6 mnths with regular, sometimes daily blood tests at the hospital.

    Now I dont want any more kids but thats because of my life and what I want to be able to do for myself, however in so many ways I would not be scared or worried to have another. Pregnancy is a wonderful experiance and although I can understand ppl having no wish to have children is perfectly fine I certainly wouldnt want ppl who do want kids to be put off. Yes it CAN be traumatic but having such a wonderful outcome makes everything u have been though a distant memory.

    That's totally amazing, I'm always blown away by people who are so obviously wonderful mothers, where the maternal love just shines through

    I don't want children for so many reasons...don't worry the horrors of childbirth are low down on the list of factors I take into consideration

    xxKPxx

    1284491531
    Despina Rose [sign in to see picture]
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    Malteser81 wrote:

    I think its possible for ANYTHING to happen in life and a bd birth is just one minor thing we should worry about. Now I went through full enduced labour with my first for 48 hrs before being told she was stuck, went through a c section which l8r got v badly infected. 18 months after her my second came along...... with her I suffered an anurism during which I died, I cant remember over a week of my life or my daughter being born by yet another c section. I stayed in hospital for 3 weeks during which i washardly able to see my new btorn at all. After that time I was transfered to a hospital closer to home to look after my dauger in the maternaty ward upon where I was told on arrival I had major blood clots. My daugher went home, I stayed in that hospital for yet another 3 weeks and needed to be on blood thinners for 6 mnths with regular, sometimes daily blood tests at the hospital.

    Now I dont want any more kids but thats because of my life and what I want to be able to do for myself, however in so many ways I would not be scared or worried to have another. Pregnancy is a wonderful experiance and although I can understand ppl having no wish to have children is perfectly fine I certainly wouldnt want ppl who do want kids to be put off. Yes it CAN be traumatic but having such a wonderful outcome makes everything u have been though a distant memory.

    Malt your an amazing strong woman, your children will be proud. This is bad as what happened but its amazing that after all that you wanted another and would have more.

    1284538133
    telemachus [sign in to see picture]
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    Alicia D'amore wrote:

    telemachus wrote:

    You should remember that most women don't tear badly. Most women do not suffer afterwards with pain, or suffer after effects for years. You will likely have a straightforward birth. Most women do. And if you need to have a section, my advice - plan it, because an emergency is not nice..

    This is exactly my issue - I know I am one of the few that will not have a straight forward labour when I have kids so I know now, I'm not having them if I can't plan a C section before hand. I know I will end up a mess because I'm already a mess with no interference so labour is never going to agree with me - but as you say, my priority will be to plan a C section, build up a group of people who I trust and ensure things move as smoothly as possible. Obviously nature may intend other things, but at least if I have that planned it will mean less stress for me and ultimately less stress for baby....this is assuming I can have kids.

    Adx

    Well, this is different - you have a clear medical issue that necessitates a section. Whilst a straightforward vaginal birth is the safest, a scheduled section comes next, so it is safer than a VB with intervention. No doctor would deny you, though you may have to be forceful to get what you want.

    Of course, there are nasty and risky things about a VB, though you get issues with sections as well...scar tearing, problems with healing, not being able to get around after etc.

    From the outside, it can seem terrifying and bloody and scary. But when you are there, you just deal with it. There is no other choice (the baby is coming out!), you have to.

    Malteser is completely right though - you do almost forget it all. I am convinced that there is some sort of proper science behind the idea that we are programmed to forget about the pain of childbirth. Otherwise, no-one would have more than one, ever! You do forget.

    1284539475
    CurlyCoupleWife [sign in to see picture]
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    Children are a bit of an emotionally charged subject with me.

    Due to a diabetic nurse telling me I had a 0.5 chance of passing on type 1 diabetes to my offspring I had (very sadly) ruled out the possibility of having kids as that chance was too high for me. To reproduce knowing that my children would only have half a chance of not needing to live on insulin was just too much for me.

    Now I have interweb access & more books than when I was 18 I now know that the chance is approx 0.06 (compared to 0.01 in general population). Was really rather angry at how much upset I'd put myself through by believing her.

    I was told by same nurse that mothers with type 1 diabetes were always recommended to have planned C-sections. I see the merit in that but I feel more research is needed - if it is possible and safe for me and potential future baby I would love to attempt a vaginal birth but obviously safety would be my first priority.

    1284543860
    telemachus [sign in to see picture]
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    CurlyCoupleWife wrote:

    Children are a bit of an emotionally charged subject with me.

    Due to a diabetic nurse telling me I had a 0.5 chance of passing on type 1 diabetes to my offspring I had (very sadly) ruled out the possibility of having kids as that chance was too high for me. To reproduce knowing that my children would only have half a chance of not needing to live on insulin was just too much for me.

    Now I have interweb access & more books than when I was 18 I now know that the chance is approx 0.06 (compared to 0.01 in general population). Was really rather angry at how much upset I'd put myself through by believing her.

    I was told by same nurse that mothers with type 1 diabetes were always recommended to have planned C-sections. I see the merit in that but I feel more research is needed - if it is possible and safe for me and potential future baby I would love to attempt a vaginal birth but obviously safety would be my first priority.

    It's awful that a HCP would give you information like that. Women with Type 1 Diabetes can have vaginal births if the pregnancy is straightforward. Of course, large babies are a possibility, and they will often section for very large babies....but not always, and sizing babies when pregnant is notoriously unreliable. I hear story after story of people told thei rbabies are 10lb+ only to come out at 6-7lb.

    You have every chance of having an uncomplicated pregnancy and birth.

    1284545146
    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    CurlyCoupleWife wrote:

    Children are a bit of an emotionally charged subject with me.

    Due to a diabetic nurse telling me I had a 0.5 chance of passing on type 1 diabetes to my offspring I had (very sadly) ruled out the possibility of having kids as that chance was too high for me. To reproduce knowing that my children would only have half a chance of not needing to live on insulin was just too much for me.

    Now I have interweb access & more books than when I was 18 I now know that the chance is approx 0.06 (compared to 0.01 in general population). Was really rather angry at how much upset I'd put myself through by believing her.

    I was told by same nurse that mothers with type 1 diabetes were always recommended to have planned C-sections. I see the merit in that but I feel more research is needed - if it is possible and safe for me and potential future baby I would love to attempt a vaginal birth but obviously safety would be my first priority.

    i have seen some statistics recently that have said that women with diabetes have a totally normal pregnancy if their diabetes is well managed. http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Living_with_diabetes/Pregnancy_and_diabetes/

    personally im not sure what i would have. i reckon ( withouht much research as its a fai way off) that i will have an epidural and that takes a fair bit of the pain away. if it is medically nescasarry i see no issue with episiotomies. doctors don't just go cutting people for no reason.

    1284547270
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    CurlyCoupleWife wrote:

    Children are a bit of an emotionally charged subject with me.

    Due to a diabetic nurse telling me I had a 0.5 chance of passing on type 1 diabetes to my offspring I had (very sadly) ruled out the possibility of having kids as that chance was too high for me. To reproduce knowing that my children would only have half a chance of not needing to live on insulin was just too much for me.

    Now I have interweb access & more books than when I was 18 I now know that the chance is approx 0.06 (compared to 0.01 in general population). Was really rather angry at how much upset I'd put myself through by believing her.

    I was told by same nurse that mothers with type 1 diabetes were always recommended to have planned C-sections. I see the merit in that but I feel more research is needed - if it is possible and safe for me and potential future baby I would love to attempt a vaginal birth but obviously safety would be my first priority.

    This makes me sad. I know it's a bit cliché but speaking on the chat you and CC seem great people who care, care about stuff/issues in general, I assume you would make a good parent (the care shown for a potential child is a good demonstration too) from the sensibilities you display.

    Are they still ruled out? I wouldn't strike them off now if you still really want 'em. I hope you're happy with what ever course you have chosen CCW!

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