• Ever paid for sex?

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    Tigerlilies [sign in to see picture]
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    PS, has no one in this thread pointed out the moral implications of 'giving it out for free.' I mean, honestly, wouldn't that make someone feel exploited

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    [suspended user]

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    good idea tiger !!!

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    Inara14 [sign in to see picture]
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    Tigerlilies wrote:

    Looking at it from another angle, some food for thought. (not arguments just ideas that come from looking at the LH forum)

    • There are some things that people are into where it's much easier to negotiate with someone and compensate them for their time. Plus, you get a professional to do the job. Can't think of examples but then I'm innocent, innit?
    • A lot of clients are simply not looking for an orgasm. They can get that at home, on their own, free of charge. Many are paying for intimacy. You can get intimacy free? Yes, you can but divorcees, the bereaved and the disabled often find a lot of solace and accpetance from working men and women if they're not ready for a relationship or can't get sexual contacy elsewhere . But then I'm of the opinion that consensual sex is a human right and everyone should be given vouchers for it at Christmas. No? Very well.....

    I think what you have written here is a prime example to why it should at least be decriminilised (im not a big fan of the legalisation arguments myself). Under a controlled and completely consensual environment, the sex trade can be seen to be fairly rewarding, and in a way liberating. But it is very hard to ensure that there is no harm or coercion involved in the sex trade, so it would have to be done very carefully to improve the situation that is currently around.

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    Tigerlilies [sign in to see picture]
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    In an ideal world, sex work would just be thought of as any other service. Not one everyone chose to partake in but it wouldn't be seen as a route to deviancy. I know that's a long off hope but that kind of culture would mean more witnesses coming forward when sex workers are targetted, especially those who otherwise have a lot to lose if it's revealed where they were. Ipswich is a horrible example.

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    Phantasma [sign in to see picture]
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    Sex work as a service could eventually be a consequence of either decriminalization or legalisation. Once sex comes into the open more and (hopefully) would not be instantly decried as completely criminal then it would gradually become a service like any other. If sex eventually became a service like alcohol then so much the better for everyone. Getting sex out of the crime lords hands would be an important first step I believe.

    As to decriminalization or Legalisation I dont think I could advocate one or the other outright. WandA raised some points about certain things people might not find comfortable - brothels very near schools for example. The worry for me would be if someone tried to buy a house to turn it into a brothel and was refused on those grounds. They would then have a reasonable case in court for discrimination (I assume at least - i dont presume to be a lawyer). So personally I'd like to see a few guidelines about what the sex trade could do. If those could be written into existing laws as codicils then so much the better - but if regulation was required then I would not be against it as long as the legislation remained reasonably 'hands-off'.

    Thank you Inara, WandA and Tigerlilies for such a fascinating debate!

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    Mr Monster [sign in to see picture]
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    Very interesting (and my head hurts!) so here's something to think on -

    As with some drugs, how much of the "danger" or seediness associated with sex work is purely due to its illegality? The circular argument goes - we don't want people doing this because it's wrong, so we'll ban it. It's banned, so we don't want people doing it....etc etc.

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Phantasma wrote:

    Sex work as a service could eventually be a consequence of either decriminalization or legalisation. Once sex comes into the open more and (hopefully) would not be instantly decried as completely criminal then it would gradually become a service like any other. If sex eventually became a service like alcohol then so much the better for everyone. Getting sex out of the crime lords hands would be an important first step I believe.

    As to decriminalization or Legalisation I dont think I could advocate one or the other outright. WandA raised some points about certain things people might not find comfortable - brothels very near schools for example. The worry for me would be if someone tried to buy a house to turn it into a brothel and was refused on those grounds. They would then have a reasonable case in court for discrimination (I assume at least - i dont presume to be a lawyer). So personally I'd like to see a few guidelines about what the sex trade could do. If those could be written into existing laws as codicils then so much the better - but if regulation was required then I would not be against it as long as the legislation remained reasonably 'hands-off'.

    Thank you Inara, WandA and Tigerlilies for such a fascinating debate!

    I agree, I think given the unique place sex holds in our culture sex is worthy of acceptance but in a manner similar to alcohol (but with more provisions, in my opinion). The thought of decriminalisation, and for example, non-mandatory health checks and condoms fills me with dread because as we have seen if there are loopholes and money to be made someone will try it.

    Hmmm. I think the house example would fail. It would be zoned as residential or something, as certain places are zoned now although there is some wiggle room (see billions of Tesco Metros!).

    Thank all for the debate! They used to happen more frequently her.

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Mr Monster wrote:

    Very interesting (and my head hurts!) so here's something to think on -

    As with some drugs, how much of the "danger" or seediness associated with sex work is purely due to its illegality? The circular argument goes - we don't want people doing this because it's wrong, so we'll ban it. It's banned, so we don't want people doing it....etc etc.

    Lots, in my opinion. We should have learnt by now about human nature, humans will do stuff, what ever the stuff is they'll do it. The vast majority of people are, on some level idiots. They know the dangers of things but still do them. Make that stuff as safe as you can, be it sex, drugs or loud music.

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    Mr Monster [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    The vast majority of people are, on some level idiots.

    Holy cow, somebody else gets it!

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    Tigerlilies [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    Tigerlilies wrote:

    This Morning had a former sex worker, an NHS specialist and...some journo, discuss the matter recently. Guess which one was talking of their arse? She dragged in morality and compared the consensual business agreement between two or more people to murder. LOGIC FAIL.

    Another problem with the discussion of prostitution is that it is so often written by hacks with no idea what they're talking about and only consult a 'raunch culture' book and a 'womens studies' professor.

    Sexualisation of children tends to be more of a gendered issue as well and there's iffy class stuff too. So common is the cry 'what are we teaching our daughters' but it's rarely a hysteria that focuses on the boys.

    And Wanda, I know you're as dorky as me for a proper report instead of a sodding Panorama program so check out this shizzle http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/equal/reports-10/eor10-02.htm

    (Insert really bad joke about really good sex and the similarities to being dead)

    I can understand why you disliked the comparison to violence and sex because twits like that can abuse any link. The only link I'm happy to apply is that it is 'adult', as in only adults are really capable of the consequences of it, vague, I know but meh!

    Damn you, you stimulating little miss! (How much have I undermined my points with that comment?)

    You have a knack of provoking great debate that spirals into many related points, such as the gender and class issues. I shall check out that shizzle, if not during revision *gulp*.

    Mwah xx

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Mr Monster wrote:

    WandA wrote:

    The vast majority of people are, on some level idiots.

    Holy cow, somebody else gets it!

    I should add that the vast majority of people who recognise that fact are also super intelligent.

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    Tigerlilies [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    Mr Monster wrote:

    WandA wrote:

    The vast majority of people are, on some level idiots.

    Holy cow, somebody else gets it!

    I should add that the vast majority of people who recognise that fact are also super intelligent.

    I can't remember who it was who introduced the dictum: 'just remember everyone is essentially 12 and you'll be fine'

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    Mr Monster [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    I should add that the vast majority of people who recognise that fact are also super intelligent.

    Well, I knew that. Duh!

    (Would now be a good time to declare my undying love for WandA? Nah, I'll wait...)

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    Mr Monster [sign in to see picture]
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    Tigerlilies wrote:

    I can't remember who it was who introduced the dictum: 'just remember everyone is essentially 12 and you'll be fine'

    I object - I've never been twelve in my life!! I was born middle aged...

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Tigerlilies wrote:

    Mwah xx

    Only WandA (and only just at a guess) could get away with that reply to "little miss"

    In fact, that's too nearly condescending (but very much in jest) comments he's made in one day - spot the other!

    Adx

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    I love both of you! Both of you are so refreshing!

    Mr Monster wrote:

    Tigerlilies wrote:

    I can't remember who it was who introduced the dictum: 'just remember everyone is essentially 12 and you'll be fine'

    I object - I've never been twelve in my life!! I was born middle aged...

    Similar here.

    I suspect I was only born premature so I can say at some point in my life I was young...

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    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    Inara14 wrote:


    I think legalisation would make conditions better. Not necessarilly mean people wouldnt be trafficked or that there would be less coercion. Just more safety.

    I should really be writing me essay ....not procrastinating reading this!

    there is also the thought that if people are being miss treated, if what they are doing is legal they are more likley to come forward to authorities to report those who are trafficking. As it is there could be a reluctace as who would voluntarily admit their illegal activities!

    and although it is not really relevant here you can derrogate ( legal term for give up) most of your rights under the human rights act 1998 ( exception is life) so you can effetivley give up bodily integrity and right to personal liberty. Obviously it dosent count in trafficking situations.

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    sweetlove666 wrote:

    Inara14 wrote:


    I think legalisation would make conditions better. Not necessarilly mean people wouldnt be trafficked or that there would be less coercion. Just more safety.

    I should really be writing me essay ....not procrastinating reading this!

    there is also the thought that if people are being miss treated, if what they are doing is legal they are more likley to come forward to authorities to report those who are trafficking. As it is there could be a reluctace as who would voluntarily admit their illegal activities!

    and although it is not really relevant here you can derrogate ( legal term for give up) most of your rights under the human rights act 1998 ( exception is life) so you can effetivley give up bodily integrity and right to personal liberty. Obviously it dosent count in trafficking situations.

    Is that not only to states and such, not individuals?

    I know the UK doesn't allow for consent to injury, I think a gay BDSM bloke got done by the Manchester Police force for it.

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    Inara14 [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    sweetlove666 wrote:

    Inara14 wrote:


    I think legalisation would make conditions better. Not necessarilly mean people wouldnt be trafficked or that there would be less coercion. Just more safety.

    I should really be writing me essay ....not procrastinating reading this!

    there is also the thought that if people are being miss treated, if what they are doing is legal they are more likley to come forward to authorities to report those who are trafficking. As it is there could be a reluctace as who would voluntarily admit their illegal activities!

    and although it is not really relevant here you can derrogate ( legal term for give up) most of your rights under the human rights act 1998 ( exception is life) so you can effetivley give up bodily integrity and right to personal liberty. Obviously it dosent count in trafficking situations.

    Is that not only to states and such, not individuals?

    I know the UK doesn't allow for consent to injury, I think a gay BDSM bloke got done by the Manchester Police force for it.

    It amuses me that they allow things such as boxing still even though they dont allow consent to other injury (usually sexual). Double standards are frustrating...

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    Phantasma [sign in to see picture]
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    But it wouldnt be the government without double standards would it.... if we had a legal system with no contradictions or double standards we would have ascended to a higher level of being.

    I think with boxing there is (theoretically) a chance that you would not get injured at all - and there are lots of safeguards etc around it. But it all comes back to perceptions - boxing is perceived as a sport (and a spectator one at that) whilst sex is still perceived as a private act, and BDSM is often seen as a perversion.... so people want to legislate against it. Even when two grown men smacking each other in the face with fists will do a lot more damage than a nice leather flogger....

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