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  1. Babies

    1295659009
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Mr Monster wrote:

    Not so!

    Saying yes and saying no are both statements of intent.

    Having kids is permanent from when it happens.

    Not having kids is just an ongoing confirmation of your intent (or inability to conceive) until it either a) changes, or b) menopause or death occurs. Then it becomes permanent.

    Basically, you can't say you'll never want kids, just like you can never say you'll love someone forever. You just don't know how you'll come to feel over time and in different life situations. You can commit to never having kids even if you do want them, but that's a very different thing to say, and maybe something you'll later regret. But for now all you can say with certainty is - "I don't want to have kids now. (Please stop asking!)"

    Of course no one can say for certain certain they don't want kids but for most practical purposes they can. I don't think when people make statements of intent they plan to abide by them in stone. Declarative sentences are expressed as are rather than adding absurdly long conditionals and open-ended disjunctions to them. I don't think the semantics of the issue change anything that no one was aware of.

    1295659168

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    Like when you said you wouldn't crash another thread ha ha

    1295659168
    Ecksvie [sign in to see picture]
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    I think the difference for me would be accepting the fact that you wanting kids would mean you've identified something that will make you happy and I presume those people will be moving towards that goal. Deciding you never want kids is deciding that something won't make you happy, but I don't think that just because something won't make you happy now or in the foreseeable future, means that it can and will never make you happy.

    Having kids is a permanent decision. That's not to say people can't want kids and once they have them regret the decision or don't enjoy the experience, but I consider that a different kettle of fish. I don't view the choice not to have kids as a permanent decision because no matter how long that decision lasts, I think human nature means you can always change your mind down the road, and if you do, you can have kids. It's not permanent because you don't suddenly become infertile the moment you decide you don't want kids.

    Six years ago there was a guy chasing me who I absolutely hated and I just couldn't get rid of him, despite me telling him that me and him would never happen. We also had a discussion about how I'd never put a guy's cock in my mouth. Now he's my boyfriend and I give him blow jobs on a fairly regular basis However unlikely things seem at the time, you really can't know how you're going to feel later on.

    1295659299
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Apparently my post comes across as idealised.

    What I mean r.e. love is that whilst the definition is subjective, for me, I'll always have feelings of love towards WandA. I'll always care about him and think fondly of him and feel connected to him. I'll feel of him as I do my mother always. Whether I'll remain head-over-heels truly, madly, deeply in love with him or want sex with him forever is a different matter - for me those types of feelings are different to the caring loving feeling that can be unconditional.

    But as I said it's subjective - you might describe that as just caring for someone, I describe it as love.

    Adx

    1295659299

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    Some people have children because they had a happy upbringing maybe?

    1295659442
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    lickmadick wrote:

    Like when you said you wouldn't crash another thread ha ha

    Well he's in the thread about children, talking about children so he's on topic and involved in discussion as is generally the way a thread goes

    Adx

    1295659535
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    lickmadick wrote:

    Like when you said you wouldn't crash another thread ha ha

    *Didn't say another thread. I said I would stop crashing the specific thread I was in.

    1295659646

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    oh go to bed you naughty boy

    1295659701
    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    i backtracked and read my last post in this thread and im pretty much the same. i dont want kids till im 35 ish. and in a stable relationship.

    babies and toddlers are only interesting to me when i can hand them back

    i've always been a maternal kind of person but that dosen't mean id be any good as a parent, or that it warrants having babies just because i have an insane urge to when im hormonal. theres also the fact that i could well turn out like my mother did ( she was distant and cold when we her kids were growing up and then emotionally abusive when we were teenagers) and that terrifies me.

    1295659987
    Ecksvie [sign in to see picture]
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    I also guess I have an issue with people who say always to things too, because again, you never know.

    1295660253
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Ecksvie wrote:

    I also guess I have an issue with people who say always to things too, because again, you never know.

    But I *will* always love Skittles

    I'd never turn down a Skittle

    Adx

    1295661395
    chipNroll [sign in to see picture]
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    I want kids more than anything and actually get a bit jealous when I see mums with their babies. I know the OP mentioned being judged for not wanting babies but I think sometimes it can work the other way too and I think people can be quite judgemental if I express that I actually wouldn't mind settling down to be a full-time young(ish) mum. It's like a feminist backlash- we have the choice now but those who choose the more old fashioned life can be a little looked-down upon and alomst pitied as though they're missing out (that's the vibe I get anyway). Don't get me wrong, I'm quite independent and have my degree and whatnot, but if the right man came along I don't think I'd wait until my 30s+ to have kids.

    1295661531
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    I'd have one now if it were practical. In reality I want to get a house and career and wedding sorted first but we will have to settle early because I could become infertile at any age (endometriosis) and my mum was 24 when she was told she had to do it now or never!

    I am sick of having to explain that to people though. Saying "I want babies young" isn't enough for other people.

    Adx

    1295662111
    Mr Monster [sign in to see picture]
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    Alicia D'amore wrote:

    Ecksvie wrote:

    I also guess I have an issue with people who say always to things too, because again, you never know.

    But I *will* always love Skittles

    I'd never turn down a Skittle

    Adx

    Let me tell you a story - a long, long time ago, we made the decision not to get eggs at easter (overpriced stale chocolate somewhat missing the point!) and asked for ordinary chocolate instead. Bigger bars, better value. Made the same year, even...

    Anyway, my Nan asked what kind of chocolate bars I liked, and my Mum told her "Crunchies". Because I did. And I duly recieved Crunchies. Every easter, every birthday and christmas. Now, I'd have told you that first year that I'd never turn down a Crunchie, never ever (because I was young and foolish!)

    But, you know what? After a few years I was thoroughly fed up with them. My favourite had lost its favour.

    1295662499
    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Mr Monster wrote:

    But, you know what? After a few years I was thoroughly fed up with them. My favourite had lost its favour.

    I *was* joking! I go through phases - had a few months where I ate Maltesers on a daily basis - now I've had a big packet open for 2 months and still not finished. But that's OCD personality enjoying routine. Currently the phase is Skittles. Next it could be something savoury!

    Though my love for pizza *appears* to be indestructable

    Adx

    1295662650
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    An interesting position I heard recently concerned the superior childcare, taxe breaks, maternity etc... Scandinavian countries experience can be as limiting as it is liberating, it might be great to have such long holidays and free childcare but it then means everything else (such as service and shopping) is much more expensive and it makes 'stay at home' mums almost unheard of. It is simply unaffordable.

    An interesting point if it is true. Reminds me of the Rousseau's slogan 'forced to be free'!

    1295663191
    Mr Monster [sign in to see picture]
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    WandA wrote:

    An interesting position I heard recently concerned the superior childcare, taxe breaks, maternity etc... Scandinavian countries experience can be as limiting as it is liberating, it might be great to have such long holidays and free childcare but it then means everything else (such as service and shopping) is much more expensive and it makes 'stay at home' mums almost unheard of. It is simply unaffordable.

    An interesting point if it is true. Reminds me of the Rousseau's slogan 'forced to be free'!

    If you think about it, wages will rise or fall to support the average household. If fewer people had dual incomes, fewer people would need them because individual wages would be higher.

    1295663889
    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    Mr Monster wrote:

    WandA wrote:

    An interesting position I heard recently concerned the superior childcare, taxe breaks, maternity etc... Scandinavian countries experience can be as limiting as it is liberating, it might be great to have such long holidays and free childcare but it then means everything else (such as service and shopping) is much more expensive and it makes 'stay at home' mums almost unheard of. It is simply unaffordable.

    An interesting point if it is true. Reminds me of the Rousseau's slogan 'forced to be free'!

    If you think about it, wages will rise or fall to support the average household. If fewer people had dual incomes, fewer people would need them because individual wages would be higher.

    Yep, that is the idea behind it. It is simply unaffordable to be a single income family for many apparently.

    But let's keep this between us MR M, yeah? If the Tories get hold of this info they'll soon have a basic wage raped. God, I hate those cunts (and don't particularly like their little arse lickers and the cowards not speaking out).

    1295670469
    BlankExpression [sign in to see picture]
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    Im waiting for my better halfs biological clock to kick in, she is now soon to be 34 and has ZERO interest in kids, if anything she would prefer a Rabbit (The fluffy kind that hop around you pervs) to a kid - i dont think I helped by winding her up about how my family all have large babys and petite women have bigger babys anyway (dont know how true that is but its fun to annoy her)

    Me personally - all i will say is that i kept the books i had has a child (im 27 now) so I could read them to my children but if they dont arrive then i will probably speak to my better half about fostering/adoption as i really need an excuse to buy lego/scalextric hehe

    1295692306
    Hedonistic [sign in to see picture]
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    I'm 29 and have never wanted children and have never been in a relationship with someone that wanted children.

    I'm not saying children and are bad or a horrible idea, but I have an honest belief and principle that if you have children you spend the time and energy to raise them properly and responsibly. You sacrifice whatever you have to to ensure they grow up well and balanced and have a strong sense of eprsonal repsonsibility.
    I see a lot of parents that fail their children and allow them to grow spoiled and irresponsible and anti-social, and I have a great respect for parents that take time to love and nurture their child fully and raise them well.

    I personaly am scared by that level of commitment and sacrifice. I simply feel I have too much invested in my own life to want to sacrifice from my own happiness for someone else. I don't want that responssibility, and if the child grew up 'bad' I would feel I failed them.

    That said, I am now in a relationship with a single mother and I have thought long and hard about her child. I've come to the conclusion that I am willing to love and care for them both as best I can, and to do my part in helping raise the child. This wasn't a fast decision and I will admit the wee one is crazy and lovely and the cutest and has seriously grown on me

    I think having such a strong personal and emotional connection to someone else with a child has helped overcome my fears and missgivings and make me comfortable with the idea of raising a child. I still have no plans to ever have my own child as being responsible for one is terrifying enough. But if she ever wanted more I would discuss it and see if she could help me overcome that fear and commit to the plan.

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