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  1. Gender/Sexuality breaking the mold

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    GollyGotha [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Lieutenant Colonel
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    • Joined: 26 Jun 2015

    I was born in the late 80s and from such a young age I was introduced to artists like David Bowie, Eddie Izzard, Elton John, Prince, Freddie Mercury, Marilyn Manson and so many other flamboyant characters. So, I never really took gender / sexuality too seriously as I was so used to androgyny.

    Somedays I'd wake up and want to shave my head and wear a studded leather jacket, tight ripped jeans and knee high leather boots, but that didn't mean I wanted to be male, it's just what I fancied looking like at the time and then I'd grow my hair out past my shoulders and wear long romantic gothic gowns. To me, evolving like that was just normal.

    As for sexual attractions, I treat love like you would friendship, I don't care about your gender, if we click then we click. It's as simple as that. But, I have always found more feminine looking men to be attractive, bar a few exceptions, where as I'm slightly fussier with women, but perhaps that's because with women it's harder to suit things. Hopefully that won't be taken the wrong way, but there's more to take into consideration with women, like how the clothing is cut and such...so, it's not a case of liking a specific look, it will just be a case of 'Damn, she's gorgeous'.

    Personality wise, like Friday13, I do have a more masculine personality in the sense that I'm blunt, speak my mind and tend to typically get on with men more and although it's more common these days but growing up it was more of an issue, tend to like more 'masculine things' like Science Fiction, Video Games, Comic Books etc...but I think some of that is more to do with upbringing than anything else.

    But I don't think all these new names / terms are helping with the feeling of 'not knowing where you belong', as instead of bringing people together they're just creating more pidgeon holes and making people feel more alienated. My brother has an online friend who is gender fluid, but they have different names depending on the gender they are, but they don't tell people what gender they are that day and then moan when they don't use te correct one and such...

    So, I tend to stick to my simple approach. I'm the same person, same name, I just have different clothes / hair today. Just treat me like you did yesterday :-)

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    Zephron [sign in to see picture]
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    GollyGotha wrote:-
    Personality wise, like Friday13, I do have a more masculine personality in the sense that I'm blunt, speak my mind and tend to typically get on with men more and although it's more common these days but growing up it was more of an issue, tend to like more 'masculine things' like Science Fiction, Video Games, Comic Books etc...but I think some of that is more to do with upbringing than anything else.

    Its funny, but as I was saying I identify with the feminine personality types, I do find myself drawn to women who are more masuculine/have more masculine traits.
    When you mentioned shaving your head, I thought that was a good example of not necesarrily upbringing, but an ongoing loosening of our strict gender roles. Years ago to have ones head shaved as a woman was a disgrace (to remove ones feminine locks, lol.) which is why they shaved the heads of collaborators after WWII.

    Blimey, but the Punk movement has a lot for us to be thankfull for really, shaving heads, breaking down boundaries, and inspiring loads of kids that they could be exactly what they wanted to be.

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    GollyGotha [sign in to see picture]
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    Oh really? That's quite amusing as last night my best friend offered to help me work at a convention later this year and said 'I shall enjoy watching you work, I have a thing for women in positions of power' as he knows I can be very bossy haha! I never thought of it as an attractive trait before then.

    Oh I really agree with you, but for me it was also due to my upbringing as my parents were so laid back, especially during my teenage years. I shaved my head, had a mohawk, had an undercut, bleached my hair, dyed my hair, had synthetic dreads, got piercings.... and even if they didn't agree with all of it, they let me do it.

    And whilst I'm slightly more toned down now, I still have 2/3 of my head shaved though, being able to experience that was amazing and I wish more people had that opportunity.

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    Zephron [sign in to see picture]
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    GollyGotha wrote:- Oh I really agree with you, but for me it was also due to my upbringing as my parents were so laid back, especially during my teenage years. I shaved my head, had a mohawk, had an undercut, bleached my hair, dyed my hair, had synthetic dreads, got piercings.... and even if they didn't agree with all of it, they let me do it.

    And whilst I'm slightly more toned down now, I still have 2/3 of my head shaved though, being able to experience that was amazing and I wish more people had that opportunity.

    *heart flutters*

    Sounds fantastic!

    1467565208
    GollyGotha [sign in to see picture]
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    Haha, saying things like that will definitely ruin my masculine appearance. Any form of compliment makes me go bright red! Thank you for the kind words though :-)

    1467644362
    Zephron [sign in to see picture]
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    GollyGotha wrote:- Haha, saying things like that will definitely ruin my masculine appearance.

    We wouldn't want to ruin you in any way ;) ;)

    But your welcome.

    Was just thinking the other day that its a shame that mens roles haven't changed as much as womens tho.
    And this isnt meant to sound like a rant, (It might end up like that, but it's not meant to) but everything that aims for equality seems to be aping the men/masculine culture, remember the laddettes of the 90's. That makes me think of my favourite quote that "A woman who wants to be equal to a man doesnt have much ambition" but I cant think who its by now.

    Anyway, when was the last time you saw a little boy running around the schoolyard in a skirt? Girls are allowed pants tho. Girls climb trees etc, but you dont see many boys plastering said girls knee when she falls.
    Men aren't allowed to cry, unless its over 'sports' and their team gets a trouncing from the other bunch of chaps who also sported very well that day etc.

    I could be a little bitter as, being one of them sensative, delicate little flowers, that was always scorned for my behaviour, laughed at, or told to 'Man up' (yeah, nice huh!) I'm not the biggest fan of this patriarchal b*llocks.

    And will just park this up for now...

    https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/112730796893033449/ (hope this one is allowed)

    1467806341
    Zephron [sign in to see picture]
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    Wow, how handy is this, a friend on FB just posted this into my timeline. An article delving into native american indian sexuality, with (at least) 5 recognised genders.

    http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/19/before-european-christians-forced-gender-roles-native-americans-acknowledged-5-genders/

    Also interesting but not really surprising that the they tried to completely crush it, and all information about it.

    1467893342
    Zephron [sign in to see picture]
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    After posting up the link to the story of the american indians I got to thinking about my own position in my tribe (well, social position anyways). As I have always thought of myself as having a more feminine spirit, more empathy, caring etc. So looked into this twin spirit ideology. It kinda strikes a chord with me on different levels. And feel more of a kinship with it than most other religions/docterines. Even when it starts off on the first page talking of having an animal spirit, the indians saw that as perfectlynatural as their religion had shapeshifting in, wheather that was more ceremonial or not is open to debate, but another sign that it was more encompassing of the human experiance.

    At the same time thought about classifications (Yep westernisation and labels and putting people into boxes again) and, low and behold as well as an alpha and beta male, after thinking about myself in a delta context I found gamma and delta in a net-search, theres even the omega too.

    I'd just like to thank Vanilla_kink, Mamz and Alicia4Ever. for the thread. As it has given me so much to think about recently.

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    Alicia4Ever [sign in to see picture]
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    Zephron I'm glad you find whats written here has given you food for thought, it's been my route to shedding my skin so to speak. I have tried to maintain the outward apperance of the body I'm in, tried to be male for the sake of others, and to avoid, the stigma that is associated with transgender identification. Some have far more courage than I, and have made the transition, I feel like I have avoided the issue so long I don't really quallifiy as transgender. I have tried to hide from it, to tried and fit in as male, but I know that I'm not, it just isn't who I am.

    I have blamed a past partner for stopping me finding love, and while thats true, what is also true is that I knew, in any fututure relationships, I would have to be Alicia, openly. And thats a major stumbling block, I have tried, and been rejected for it, or more precisely been pushed away from my true nature, to suit the other persons wants. Like the thing where guys think all a lesbian woman needs is a "real man " in her bed; well women take that route with me, and it's Bull****.

    I feel trapped in some interland between the two, only here am I treated as female, only here do I feel safe to be real, and I get spoken to as a female, and called Alicia, by women who see me as a female friend, and by some guys, which is so sweet. When I first came back here I felt like a man who just wanted to be female, for lots of reasons, and to not want to be male for even more reasons. But as I have looked back over my life in these last weeks I can see all the times when it was so obvious I prefered the female outlook on life, in an age when boys played football a went chasing girls, I was sat doing embroidery.

    I have accepted myself as bi-sexual, but that doesn't really fit, because I fancy guys, but I want them to see me as female, not gay. In otherwords I like straight men, as a bi woman would. Then how I feel about men fits with whats in my head, but I still don't feel like I could fall in love with a man, it's just a sex thing.

    Your spritual take on things, sadly isn't in me, though I can see why it would be in others, and I respect that, and respect others for what they choose to be in life. But I so hate this if you aren't like me, then you are not human, attitude that so many have.

    I like your individuallity, and openness, it's refreshing.

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    Zephron [sign in to see picture]
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    Alicia4Ever wrote:

    Zephron I'm glad you find whats written here has given you food for thought, it's been my route to shedding my skin so to speak.

    Thank you.

    I remember findng your name change, and was very happy that it had totally flipped in it's connotation. Seemed to be a very posative affermation for you, and a step in the right direction.

    I personally identify very much with the term 'sapiosexual' too, even though it has become quite trendy of late. Most atractions are, for me. formed in the head anyway.

    1497984472
    More Sexy at 50 [sign in to see picture]
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    Wow this is a great thread that I found when searching for "gender" in the forum. Some really strong messages and can I just say how brave you all are for being yourselves and not what someone else wants you to be. Fantastic.

    The reason I was looking is that I'm a man, but have always been complimented by women that I'm so in tune with my femininity, I don't think they were being sarcastic ! I just found a gender test on line and came out average male type and casually female type whatever that means. I don't feel sexually attracted to men, definitely to women, but can appreciate male and female beauty. I hate that the media/society has such a polar view of male and female as in reality it's much more blurred, based on my own experience. I recently purchased some silk lacy underwear for Xdressing men as a bit of excitement as I love my Wife to wear similar clothing. However, when I showed it to my Wife she was a little shocked and took the stereotyped view that I obviously wanted to be a woman, hum...... She did let me wear it, but then I felt uncomfortable with it !

    i was also interested in the comments that woman had about pleasuring their men and watching men penetrating in porn and fantasising about that. It's the opposite for me I get satisfaction from pleasuring my Wife and I don't always have the urge to have intercourse with her. I would say she is the more dominant of the 2 of us, but just recently I wish she would show me more sexual attention. she doesn't like to kiss passionately, lick or suck any part of me; just intercourse ! I'm really struggling to speak with her on this and at times it feels like she is avoiding opportunities to speak to her about our sexual relationship. Just to be clear I love my Wife so much, I just wish our sex life would improve.

    1498008342
    RosyCheek [sign in to see picture]
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    MSa5, it's really sad your wife feels this way. What hits me the hardest is when you say "she did LET me wear it". I assume you are not in a sub domain relationship? To me it seems very controlling of you. I truly believe people are who they are, there are those blurred lines of sexuality and it shouldn't be an issue but sadly a lot do make that stereotype.

    You need to talk to your wife. If she doesn't listen then write it down. You shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable by the person you chose to be with. With family we have no choice, we are brought into it, a spouse is the only person we really choose, flaws and all. I hope she listens to you.

    Good luck x

    1498036683
    More Sexy at 50 [sign in to see picture]
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    RosyCheek wrote:

    MSa5, it's really sad your wife feels this way. What hits me the hardest is when you say "she did LET me wear it". I assume you are not in a sub domain relationship? To me it seems very controlling of you. I truly believe people are who they are, there are those blurred lines of sexuality and it shouldn't be an issue but sadly a lot do make that stereotype.

    You need to talk to your wife. If she doesn't listen then write it down. You shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable by the person you chose to be with. With family we have no choice, we are brought into it, a spouse is the only person we really choose, flaws and all. I hope she listens to you.

    Good luck x

    Rosy, thanks for responding. You know I do wonder if we should discuss if we are naturally sub/Dom, but now I want to switch sometimes. I have actually been writing stuff down that I find hard to say to my Wife too (good Relate advice). we have been opening up to each other a lot recently and she has been finding it tough as she had been living in her own "bubble" of work, kids etc.. too and did not really notice how I was coping with life at all. Finishing work has been a real catalyst for me to reappraise my life and what I want out of life. I guess some would call it a mid life crisis. My Wife is very conservative when it comes to sex and intimacy, but after orally pleasuring her last night I did have a small break through this morning when, with some encouragement, she kissed my nipple. I know this sounds really small, but that level of intimacy is a big deal for my Wife. She then wanted to make love to me rather than asking me to make love to her, the emotional giving vs taking thing, it felt lovely and special. I think she is listening, but it's not always that obvious in her actions and words. 20+ years of poor communication doesn't correct itself overnight and I need to stay patient and positive.

    Good luck too getting through your sadness. You will never forget how you feel, but time does start to make the emotions less intense. I really do empathise, I had a work colleague who committed suicide, just out of the blue. I think it was the shock and not noticing the signs and a sense of guilt that was also hard to deal with. It was a number of years ago and I still think of him. This may sound harsh, but suicide is a selfish act and it's this thought that kept me sane enough over the +20 years, otherwise who knows, better for me not to dwell too much and look forward.

    xx

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    Bigtrak [sign in to see picture]
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    MY wife and I have been together for 17 years...married for 10. Only recently have we both been comfortable with who we are. She is bisexual and in a threesome situation would prefer all female. We both enjoy Lesbian porn and love the female body. She still feels slightly awkward by it. I love the fact she likes woman.

    Now I do not find males attractive. Yet I lobe both genitals. I would be equally at home with either organ providing it's on a woman. So T-girls are a massive turn on as are woman.


    I think you have to be honest with who you are and enjoy it.

    1498635814
    More Sexy at 50 [sign in to see picture]
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    Bigtrak wrote:

    MY wife and I have been together for 17 years...married for 10. Only recently have we both been comfortable with who we are. She is bisexual and in a threesome situation would prefer all female. We both enjoy Lesbian porn and love the female body. She still feels slightly awkward by it. I love the fact she likes woman.

    Now I do not find males attractive. Yet I lobe both genitals. I would be equally at home with either organ providing it's on a woman. So T-girls are a massive turn on as are woman.


    I think you have to be honest with who you are and enjoy it.

    Good advice, it's breaking the social gender stereotypes that's difficult.

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