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  1. Love sex! advice sought from 'veterans'. Pain should be of the best sort ;) Bad joints

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Rowan wrote:

    Hey, sorry to post this on this topic again, just one particular question probably most targeted towards Adna or Lubyanka: one I hadn't anticipated becoming difficult, looking for something which will have a similar angle/ feel to being under him on the edge of the bed with legs round him with my knees about level with my shoulders. Thought the detail might help It's a good one for me, works every time but twice in the last week it was used and my hips locked, at a high excitement point and muscle sort of went into spasm when I was moving legs down and straightening (with help). It's genuinely not intended as a complaint but a question due to relative inexperience; have only been sexually active since the very end of last winter, and yes I am 21, I haven't however had to deal with a full winter and during semester while living with my partner. Nor was I anywhere near as confident that way (I'm sure you've all felt that way at some point). Obviously had to stop the other night and I was angry at the way my body failed me at a most inconvenient juncture and felt guilty for needing to desist from similar joint excercises for a day of two.

    There will I know be ways to work around things but am hoping you good people with your combined wisdom have any suggestions for a similar angle of penetration that will not have the undesirable results while producing the favourable experience that one has provided to this point. Thank you for the prior help and really I am sorry to bother you again with such a minor thing.

    Hi Rowan - first things first, don't worry about the detail or asking for advice, Lubyanka is right, you should do whatever you can to make sex as enjoyable as possible and if that means asking others in similar situations then we are happy to help Plus I've had to figure all things like this out by myself, I've been through the feeling guilty, feeling inadequate and feeling like a rubbish girlfriend because I didn't have anyone to give me advice or tell me that it was all ok. If I can help someone else to avoid the feeling crappy then that makes me happy!!

    Because yes, your body mightn't be "normal" but who's is anyway? You shouldn't feel guilty about it, it is yours and it is still wonderful and so what if you need to make a few adaptations in order to get the best out of it, you can still get the best from it with a few changes!

    Next I want to say well done for your confidence and willingness to learn!! I'm nearly 20 but have been having sex since (just) 16 and it's taken me years to have the comfortableness and confidence you have now so you should be proud

    Lubyanka gives good advice - warmth is important for joint issues, I have sex pretty much fully clothed in the winter hehe!! But then our room is FREEZING! If you can plan ahead put the heating on half an hour before you go to bed, or chuck a few hot water bottles in bed before you get in. I personally am a big advocate of planning, I know it's not that spontaneous but it really helps if you can get yourself "prepared"...and you can always make it a good thing by texting the OH through the day and making it something to anticipate!

    Also in agreement with Lubyanka, don't push yourself, if your body says stop, stop! Have a little rest, move around, try a different position, if a change of position doesn't work then move on, don't worry, tell your OH he can finish him self off, or use your hand on him whilst he vibes you! Penetration isn't the be all and end all. Personally, I see any sexual act as "sex" so we have "sex" every day even if it's just giving him head! Then when my body feels upto it we can have penetrative sex

    Back to the actual question hehe, feel free to ignore all the previous stuff, it's general things I have learnt that might be useful but if not, no worries!

    Firstly - Lubyanka's suggestion of getting your OH to support your leg is good, BUT don't get him to hold your knee, that won't be good for your joints, get him to hold your thigh just above your knee - you shouldn't put pressure on bad joints (or any joints for that matter!).

    Next, I find when my hips hurt in positions like that it's because my legs are hanging down too much, do you feel it could be this? Try putting something on either side of your OH that you can rest your legs on so that they are lifted to hip height or higher. Try stopping at points during sex and pulling your knees up towards your chest to take the pressure off your hips. Or maybe don't put your bum right on the edge, have the top of your legs on the bed too and put a pillow under the top of your legs, this should hold your legs up just enough to take the pressure off your hips.

    Don't feel embarrassed to try new positions and ask your OH to experiment with you to see what works best for your body. And I personally, I really recommend trying to switch your perspectives such that any sexual activity is seen as sex, this is a massive help for me (although it took a while to get there and lots of positive discussions with the OH!), it means I don't feel guilty if sometimes I can have penetrative sex, because giving and receiving head is more comfortable for me so we can just do that instead!

    This has turned into a bit of an essay, so I hope some of it is useful!! Let us know how things go (if you want to!) and if my advice doesn't answer your question, feel free to redirect me and I will try again hehe! I have a tendancy of going off on tangents!

    Good luck!

    Ax

    1257611913
    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    AdnaW wrote:

    Also in agreement with Lubyanka, don't push yourself, if your body says stop, stop!

    I'd like to add that if your body says pause, pause, and if it says change or rest or modify, then change or rest or modify. :) Bodes can say other things besides "stop". :)

    Lubyanka's suggestion of getting your OH to support your leg is good, BUT don't get him to hold your knee, that won't be good for your joints, get him to hold your thigh just above your knee - you shouldn't put pressure on bad joints (or any joints for that matter!).

    I didn't know that, it's a good tip, I'll add that to my information. :)

    When I said "support", I meant with the flat of the hand at the knee because it's a secure place to rest a hand without slipping. I've had problems before with partners gripping other parts of my leg and their thumbs dug in uncomfortably or their whole hand kept slipping. Having said that, I'll keep what you said in mind about pressure on the joints, thank you for that. :)

    And I personally, I really recommend trying to switch your perspectives such that any sexual activity is seen as sex, this is a massive help for me (although it took a while to get there and lots of positive discussions with the OH!), it means I don't feel guilty if sometimes I can have penetrative sex, because giving and receiving head is more comfortable for me so we can just do that instead!

    Hear here! :)

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Lubyanka wrote:

    I'd like to add that if your body says pause, pause, and if it says change or rest or modify, then change or rest or modify. :) Bodes can say other things besides "stop". :)

    I didn't know that, it's a good tip, I'll add that to my information. :)

    When I said "support", I meant with the flat of the hand at the knee because it's a secure place to rest a hand without slipping. I've had problems before with partners gripping other parts of my leg and their thumbs dug in uncomfortably or their whole hand kept slipping. Having said that, I'll keep what you said in mind about pressure on the joints, thank you for that. :)

    If you have ever been to any gym classes, during warm up and cool down when they get you to stretch they will (or should) always say "press for a more intense stretch but only press above or below the joint" because it's not good to put pressure directly onto joints

    In terms of supporting a leg to hold it up, then placing the flat of the hand on the bottom side of the lower thigh usually does the trick for me to prevent digging in, using the heel of the hand for the majority of the support (if supporting from the position Rowan was describing), although taking care that the partner doesn't put too much pressure onto his/her wrist and elbow in doing this. I don't know about you, but the bit of my thigh directly above the back of my knee curves in slightly so still quite convenient without the potential strain to the joint

    Or if you're really flexible then just above the ankle is a good place to hold too.

    I agree that we should be in tune with our bodies and listen to what they tell us, makes things much more enjoyable and comfortable!

    Ax

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    AdnaW wrote:

    Lubyanka wrote:

    When I said "support", I meant with the flat of the hand at the knee because it's a secure place to rest a hand without slipping. I've had problems before with partners gripping other parts of my leg and their thumbs dug in uncomfortably or their whole hand kept slipping. Having said that, I'll keep what you said in mind about pressure on the joints, thank you for that. :)

    If you have ever been to any gym classes, during warm up and cool down when they get you to stretch they will (or should) always say "press for a more intense stretch but only press above or below the joint" because it's not good to put pressure directly onto joints

    In terms of supporting a leg to hold it up, then placing the flat of the hand on the bottom side of the lower thigh usually does the trick for me to prevent digging in, using the heel of the hand for the majority of the support (if supporting from the position Rowan was describing), although taking care that the partner doesn't put too much pressure onto his/her wrist and elbow in doing this. I don't know about you, but the bit of my thigh directly above the back of my knee curves in slightly so still quite convenient without the potential strain to the joint

    I was never told that in gym classes, ah well.

    I should really clarify when I say support the knee, I'm not talking about supporting the whole weight of the leg. I'm talking about the flat of the hand at the side of the bent knee, so that most of the weight of the leg is held by the knee owner and the hand is simply supporting at the side to keep the bent leg from opening too wide at the hip. There is very little pressure on the joint that way and the supporting hand and wrist are in an ergonomically good position (i.e. fairly straight).

    But I've noted your helpful comments for future reference. :)

    I agree that we should be in tune with our bodies and listen to what they tell us, makes things much more enjoyable and comfortable!

    Hear here (again). :)

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    Rowan [sign in to see picture]
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    Thanks guys, will be putting these to the test and will see what works :)

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    KittyPurry [sign in to see picture]
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    This may or may not be useful information about stretching (if it's not relevant feel free to give me an e-slap!)...

    I was always taught that stretching is a very bad thing to do as a warm up because its the equivalent of trying to stretch a cold and brittle piece of rubber....when I did gymnastics we had to warm up before stretching by running around and getting the blood flowing to the muscles so they were more pliable! I've sprained a couple of muscles when I've tried stretching without warming up first so there definately seems to be some truth in it!

    Here endeth todays sermon on the dangers of cold stretching!

    xxKPxx

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Lubyanka wrote:

    I was never told that in gym classes, ah well.

    I should really clarify when I say support the knee, I'm not talking about supporting the whole weight of the leg. I'm talking about the flat of the hand at the side of the bent knee, so that most of the weight of the leg is held by the knee owner and the hand is simply supporting at the side to keep the bent leg from opening too wide at the hip. There is very little pressure on the joint that way and the supporting hand and wrist are in an ergonomically good position (i.e. fairly straight).

    But I've noted your helpful comments for future reference. :)

    Ah, I see what you mean more now. I've always been told to avoid putting any unecessary strain onto joints, but I'm not sure what the advice would be on that particular position, if you're happy to keep using it then that's fine but it might be worth doing a little research just in case?

    Of course it's up to you, I would advise anyone to take care when putting any pressure onto joints and if you can find an alternative then I would say that would be preferable but of course you don't have to heed my advice

    Ax

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    AdnaW wrote:

    Lubyanka wrote:

    I was never told that in gym classes, ah well.

    I should really clarify when I say support the knee, I'm not talking about supporting the whole weight of the leg. I'm talking about the flat of the hand at the side of the bent knee, so that most of the weight of the leg is held by the knee owner and the hand is simply supporting at the side to keep the bent leg from opening too wide at the hip. There is very little pressure on the joint that way and the supporting hand and wrist are in an ergonomically good position (i.e. fairly straight).

    But I've noted your helpful comments for future reference. :)

    Ah, I see what you mean more now. I've always been told to avoid putting any unecessary strain onto joints, but I'm not sure what the advice would be on that particular position, if you're happy to keep using it then that's fine but it might be worth doing a little research just in case?

    Of course it's up to you, I would advise anyone to take care when putting any pressure onto joints and if you can find an alternative then I would say that would be preferable but of course you don't have to heed my advice

    I will certainly add that caveat to anybody I'm advising about this. :) This method has worked well for me during the past 4-5 years or so ever since I've needed it, but then again my knees are fine so that hasn't been an issue. From what I know about the anatomy of the knee joint, when I think of adverse pressure on it I think of pressure on the patella and the resulting strain on the cartilage from that. On the other hand I can also imagine that pressure from the side could conceivably push the patella laterally, or put strain on the ligament connecting the femur and fibula. I suspect that anybody who tries this will soon discover if they have any issues with this type of support, and hopefully modify or abandon it according to their needs.

    I will certainly be more aware and sensitive in future to the possibility that other people's knees may need more care than mine. :)

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    KittyPurry wrote:

    This may or may not be useful information about stretching (if it's not relevant feel free to give me an e-slap!)...

    I was always taught that stretching is a very bad thing to do as a warm up because its the equivalent of trying to stretch a cold and brittle piece of rubber....when I did gymnastics we had to warm up before stretching by running around and getting the blood flowing to the muscles so they were more pliable! I've sprained a couple of muscles when I've tried stretching without warming up first so there definately seems to be some truth in it!

    Here endeth todays sermon on the dangers of cold stretching!

    I think one of the problems with cold stretching is that some people do too much too fast, and due to lack of understanding tend to bounce their stretches, which I don't know what good that's supposed to do. Having survived 8 years of ballet training, I always did slow, gentle, lengthy stretches prior to class, and for me at least that worked well. I've definitely strained muscles when running around cold without stretching first, so I suppose different things work for different people.

    I must say that I don't really like the idea of doing a full warm up before getting hot and heavy, but I'm sure it's a good idea. :)

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    KittyPurry wrote:

    This may or may not be useful information about stretching (if it's not relevant feel free to give me an e-slap!)...

    I was always taught that stretching is a very bad thing to do as a warm up because its the equivalent of trying to stretch a cold and brittle piece of rubber....when I did gymnastics we had to warm up before stretching by running around and getting the blood flowing to the muscles so they were more pliable! I've sprained a couple of muscles when I've tried stretching without warming up first so there definately seems to be some truth in it!

    Here endeth todays sermon on the dangers of cold stretching!

    xxKPxx

    I see your point KP and I think I agree, I do use an exercise bike to "warm up" when at the gym as I prefer it to stretching, I know some classes advise stretching before hand but I think it's shifting more over to "gentle jogging" as a warm up instead. I have also been advised to use a heat pack before stretching problematic areas by my physio so I think you are right Good point to consider!

    Hope things help Rowan, missed your reply up there let us know if anything helps!

    Ax

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    KittyPurry [sign in to see picture]
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    So in conclusion... we should all be huddling for warmth (like penguins!) in order to help our muscles prepare for an energetic session...hurrah!!!

    xxKPxx

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    KittyPurry wrote:

    So in conclusion... we should all be huddling for warmth (like penguins!) in order to help our muscles prepare for an energetic session...hurrah!!!

    Hear here! (here) :)

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    Rowan [sign in to see picture]
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    Well I do actually have an ikea kids igloo tent...

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    Rowan wrote:

    Well I do actually have an ikea kids igloo tent...

    Fantastic, penguin party at your house then? I'll bring the pillows. :p

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    Rowan [sign in to see picture]
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    Yay! I have ice cream, all welcome :p

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    Lubyanka [sign in to see picture]
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    Rowan wrote:

    Yay! I have ice cream, all welcome :p

    Right, I'll see you just as soon as I can figure out how to travel to your house through teh intartoobz. Do I turn left at the big yellow pixel? I forget. :p

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    Rowan [sign in to see picture]
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    and straight on 'til morning!

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    Rowan [sign in to see picture]
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    I do actually have a very broad definition of 'sex' extending to oral, hand jobs etc so have very few problems with guilt that way. I'm very fortunate to have a considerate and observant OH who tries to avoid potentially painful things, and has on occasion acted as my common sense ...which has greatly increased from the small spark possessed when he first met me. He' s never pressed me to do anything that hurts but it's easier to avoid if I can gather tips in field research as it were.

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Rowan wrote:

    I do actually have a very broad definition of 'sex' extending to oral, hand jobs etc so have very few problems with guilt that way. I'm very fortunate to have a considerate and observant OH who tries to avoid potentially painful things, and has on occasion acted as my common sense ...which has greatly increased from the small spark possessed when he first met me. He' s never pressed me to do anything that hurts but it's easier to avoid if I can gather tips in field research as it were.

    Good I can relate with the common sense thing - my OH has to tell me "NO!" sometimes for my own good

    Sounds like you have a really strong relationship!! And yes, it helps to get advice from other sources! Can I ask, feel free to ignore my question if you'd rather not answer, but what causes your joint problems? I only ask, because I use a very good support group for the condition I have and if you havn't tried it already, some specialised forums can be useful for tips - although you do have to take it with a pinch of salt, some users of such forums can be a little bitter.

    Ax

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    Rowan [sign in to see picture]
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    I don't mind, I was born with dislocated hips and was in a splint the first year so I'm fortunate enough that you wouldn't know without being told but they are still liable to lock or semi-dislocate if that makes sense. I have crohns disease which in my case affects my joints although this does not happen in every case of CD by any means, selection of symtoms vary from person to person; again very fortunate I was diagnosed at about 2 and a half so reached 5ft 7/8 :)

    I'm hypermobile which means that I can impress kids with some tricks but am not severely so. During a flare up of crohn's I refused to take time of work because on a skeleton staff of 25 3 or 4 were already off, 2 for an extended period so through my own folly damaged my knees. Kept that hidden for about 6 weeks once they became very bad until they would no longer bend at 3x normal size and had to sort of wobble upstairs (which gave me away) and rhuem gave me steroid injections into the knees. Unfortunately though they recovered my shock absorbers had been so abused that they don't work anymore. I was told not to do any heavy work and given a strict warning about consequences of some things, including ignoring problems :S . Basically have always had joint problems to a greater or lesser extent they just worsen during the winter and are likely to need more care as I age (young though I am!) Because of the combination of things and 'ravages' of life (LOL) I have secondary arthritis which is triggered usually by impact excercise or cold so risk evaluation is required with some things e.g. is doing X going to be worth the consequences. Sometimes the answer is yes, other times you make a different choice; occasionally it's unavoidable like carrying heavy shopping back when there is no money for a taxi and hubby is at work but such is life!

    Caring husbands are wonderful things :D Sorry about the spiel, not meant as any kind of pity play or self absorbed piece. I am not at all bitter, I am not resentful, I find better detail constructive most of the time. Life is to be enjoyed and you work with the lot that is given, I have been richly blessed and have developed many talents that had things been different I may never have found or been interested in! Certainly hope I haven't come across in a selfish or embittered way!

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