• Masculinity, male sexuality and confidence.

    1396558987
    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Having now seen several threads where ladies have posted concern about their male partners with low or non-existent sex drive, low confidence and self esteem.

    My thoughts on this are through observations of young men and helping older friends. Of course the things that I will touch upon can not be applied to every man but some of the issues will effect all men. It all stems back thousands of years to Hunter gatherer times. Men were made to hunt , build and defend his trip/ family. When life was this simple men new what and who they were. Intellect and looks weren't that important in finding a mate. Come forward a few thousand years and men became farmers, life was still tough but most stayed in one place providing food buy growing it or hemming in animals. We still needed to fight to defend our lands but principally men weree still providers by power and strength.

    Come right forward to the industrial revolution and men then start to go into factories and down coal mines. Long hours in confined spaces and a total change in what is required of them. They are still the provider but they have to earn money to be able to buy your food and valuables.

    We're am I going with all this, well modern man's roll has changed so fast that we have not been able to mentally evolve quick enough to understand what is required of us. All so young men are brought up in a very different way, education know is the only way to get a good job and be a provider. Plus ever increasing numbers of boys are being brought up without a good male roll model in my opinion this is very detrimental to a young man's confidence. They become aggressive or submissive. Join gangs and take there cues from there peers rather than from someone more learned and caring. This is a very key point in a males development. In the past his training would of been from there fathers or elders within a tribe or extended family's uncles. They would of been taught their value to the family. Taught to hunt, make and provide and respect. This word now seems to be used by teenagers to disrespect adults, with no idea of the true meaning of the word or how it can and should be earned.

    It has been my privilege to coach many young men to play rugby, many different back grounds and upbringings. But it always struck me how so many of them were so different just after a game. The aggression was gone, they were happy and smiling even when they had lost. Sport has a massive part to play in helping young men as it simulates how most young men should of behaved naturally. Hunting and fighting enemies is how we're meant to be and sport especially contact sport is the modern out let for all this testosterone to be released within the modern values and laws. If you watch some of the last tribal people to became modern play sport they are totally different. Take the south sea islands Fiji and Tonga and the New Zealand's Maori's they don't play the modern gentlemen's sport, they totally relish the contact, the big hit.

    So bring all this to today. Modern jobs bring stress it is a very bad thing for men sexually. One of the biggest things to cause erectile dysfunction this for a man is just about his worst nightmare. Being strong and hard is like a miniature version of how you are supposed to be. The worst thing about it is the downward spiral ,this in turn stresses you more worrying about it. Then health and diet wether we like it or not food is much more readily available now than it has ever been and as for its quality. High fat and carbs bring poor circulation in one way or another. Put into this as well smoking and alcohol. This again has a big impact on sexual performance and desire. Then there is exercise, many of today's jobs involve little or no physical exercise. All of the above work against sexual masculine health. I am aware that all this is also true for women but the anatomy of a woman would still allow them to have intercourse for a man no erection no sex.

    Now the final piece is very emotive but it is very necessary do bring into the equation. Social etiquette, equality and law. Most of the recent movement has been to try and make us all equal, gender and strength are irrelevant. My opinion that this is only right and has been a big advance in society. However it totally undermines what young men are feeling pumping through there veins, I want to be the biggest, fastest, strongest, hardest, leader, top dog on the winning team. These qualities now are seen as arrogant and chauvinistic and a lot of the time unacceptable. Most men just can't help it. We ask them to behave in a way that doesn't feel natural. So this then muddles their masculinity. This why you then see it transgress into violence an outpouring of aggression. This very modern idea of men to take a lot of care over how good they look shaving there bodies, plucking hair,manicures the whole make over thing is a little effeminate and can send unusual sexual signals too.

    Add to this first sexual contacts these also have very big impacts on how men then muture sexually.One of the toughest things that can really help breakdown all the barriers is to talk about it all, even this can be perceived as a weakness by many men. Don't show weakness, don't discuss it.

    These are only my opinions and would love to hear what thoughts you all have on this difficult subject.

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    Ashe66 [sign in to see picture]
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    I admit I disagree with you on a bunch of stuff, mostly the whole hunter gathering thing and what not, but at the same time agree on the concept of what you're getting at.

    The way I see it though, men have always had issues like this, so have women, but nothing has ever seemingly been done to tackle the root of the problem, sure many thousands blame porn, video games, films, etc for what “society teaches us” but generally the problems are all individual... but it's so much easier to blame something else, I mean why accept you have problems with the way you are, when so many others have already given you an excuse to blame something else.

    Where do ideas of inadequacy come from? I'm not entirely sure, but every human I have ever discussed it properly with, had some issue or another, much deeper than being jealous of some random on a TV screen, but how many are willing to admit that to themselves? And hell why should they, we live in an age where you are encouraged to blame other things for your personal issues, to hell with dealing with them!

    Having a father figure doesn't really matter, environment is more important than anything else, the freedom to talk about problems without fear, not living in a situation where you feel threatened, etc all come in to it, I've seen many people from many different backgrounds, the key to being able to deal with your problems is first admitting to yourself what they actually are, not trying to find something false to simply pin them on for short term relief, that never works long term.

    I grew up in a situation where showing emotion would leave you open to attack (emotionally or physically), so I understand why a lot of people don't like talking about things, but as I learned from these forums, communication is everything in a relationship... but it takes time and patience sometimes as well.

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    rubysoho [sign in to see picture]
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    im REALLY looking forward to being more awake tomorrow daytime so i can comment further on this . all i can honestly say now . right before bed is 'wow' just 'wow' . and perhaps a caps locked ' REALLY ????!!!! ' to garnish my wow .

    1396595081
    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Ashe66 wrote:

    I admit I disagree with you on a bunch of stuff, mostly the whole hunter gathering thing and what not, but at the same time agree on the concept of what you're getting at.

    The way I see it though, men have always had issues like this, so have women, but nothing has ever seemingly been done to tackle the root of the problem, sure many thousands blame porn, video games, films, etc for what “society teaches us” but generally the problems are all individual... but it's so much easier to blame something else, I mean why accept you have problems with the way you are, when so many others have already given you an excuse to blame something else.

    Where do ideas of inadequacy come from? I'm not entirely sure, but every human I have ever discussed it properly with, had some issue or another, much deeper than being jealous of some random on a TV screen, but how many are willing to admit that to themselves? And hell why should they, we live in an age where you are encouraged to blame other things for your personal issues, to hell with dealing with them!

    Having a father figure doesn't really matter, environment is more important than anything else, the freedom to talk about problems without fear, not living in a situation where you feel threatened, etc all come in to it, I've seen many people from many different backgrounds, the key to being able to deal with your problems is first admitting to yourself what they actually are, not trying to find something false to simply pin them on for short term relief, that never works long term.

    I grew up in a situation where showing emotion would leave you open to attack (emotionally or physically), so I understand why a lot of people don't like talking about things, but as I learned from these forums, communication is everything in a relationship... but it takes time and patience sometimes as well.

    Hi Ash thank you for your post and helping start this mostly untouched debate. The Hunter gatherer thing is big because it is at a man's animal core ,breed in. It's the fact that we don't like to think of ourselves as just animals and try to make rules that starts the inner conflict. Just as their is no man alive that will ever understand the maternal instinct for a woman to want children. This is the same, but society is not telling ladies you don't really won't babies.

    All so I am afraid father figures are key this is really the main way boys can be shown how to respect women and all the amazing things they bring to a relationship. Before and during puberty when they don't understand what is happening to them ,adult male communication and in put here is huge. In my opinion

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    you wont like it till you try it [sign in to see picture]
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    Hay Gental giant

    I would 100% agree, I used to be a Leader of a sostial club for young guys

    My group of young lads where a nice mix of classes, values, attitueds and confidence.

    We played a lot of team bulding games, things like man hunt, shooting, some prctical craft (like making spears, wooden knives and swards ect) hiking, climbing ect as I too belive that the man of today has been discoraged form being manly.

    Helth and Safty and sostial behavour has turned our young guys into 2 kinds of man, that are frightened to go out of the house incase you catch something, get a litle durty or even getting beaten up or stabbed kind of guy that would love to have a girlfriend but dosnt have the confidence to even talk to other guys not to mention have a firendship or even a relationship with women, usually causing them to turn gay as thay only spend time with guys (This is, or was me) or the one that over, arigant, and spends there young life beating up guys that are 'smaller than them' and if thay dont end up in prison then start to eventually beat up girlfriends, then there familys, there kids, wives, thats if thay dont kill themselves or get killed before hand.

    I have listend to a lot of questions over the yeas and have listened to a lot of thaughts and true feelings from my fellow men and I can say, if our world keeps following this path, it wont be another change in sosial stature we will have to worry about, the next step that I can see is extinction of the human race.

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    Lou22 [sign in to see picture]
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    While I do agree that these issues exist I have to say I disagree with quite a lot of your post.
    I realise you stated not all of it would apply to everyone but even so I think some generalisations were made.

    In regards to hunter gatherers I'm not sure that can be applied too much, as a species we have evolved so much. I won't deny there may be provider instinct in men as there is a maternal instinct in some women but it's not the case for everyone, certainly not all women want children. You say society isn't telling women they can't have children, well that's true but that doesn't mean that all women that want them get them. I don't believe society is 'telling' men they can't provide but sometime life just gets in the way, for everyone, regardless of gender.

    My main point I suppose is that I believe these are problems that exist for everyone in today's society in some shape or form. Whether it's lack of good role models, pressure to change appearance, stress and sexual disfunction or not having something in your life which you desperately crave, along with a whole host of other problems of course.

    If your hoping for an answer to the problem though I don't have it.

    1396605588
    Lou22 [sign in to see picture]
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    While I do agree that these issues exist I have to say I disagree with quite a lot of your post.
    I realise you stated not all of it would apply to everyone but even so I think some generalisations were made.

    In regards to hunter gatherers I'm not sure that can be applied too much, as a species we have evolved so much. I won't deny there may be provider instinct in men as there is a maternal instinct in some women but it's not the case for everyone, certainly not all women want children. You say society isn't telling women they can't have children, well that's true but that doesn't mean that all women that want them get them. I don't believe society is 'telling' men they can't provide but sometime life just gets in the way, for everyone, regardless of gender.

    My main point I suppose is that I believe these are problems that exist for everyone in today's society in some shape or form. Whether it's lack of good role models, pressure to change appearance, stress and sexual disfunction or not having something in your life which you desperately crave, along with a whole host of other problems of course.

    If your hoping for an answer to the problem though I don't have it.

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    jeffngloria [sign in to see picture]
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    Have to agree gg , some excellent points made my primitive brain is split into 4 and I am usually thinking about one of the 4 , sex , football , food , beer , in that order lol x,, honestly you could write a book on the subject ,rivetting

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    NWTVFiona [sign in to see picture]
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    I'm not sure if as a TV I can come at this from a different angle... I don't live full time TV and without going into why I like being a TV I thought I would share my view point if thats ok....

    I've read all the above and where as there is strong historic and scientific evidence for the way man and society has evolved it should be applied to not only men but womem and also society in general and how each society, country has developed and adapted or not as in the case of the UK.

    I've had the pleasure of working in some very liberated countries when it comes to sex. I have found that the guys in these countries have a far more confident outlook to sex and how to enjoy and partake in it, boith in everyday life and maybe more adventurous things too. This I have noticed reflects into how their married and social lives are lived out too. There is far less pressure sexually on guys and women in these countries to perform etc. This I feel is far more than a man thing its a social thing... its less of an issue less of a stigma to talk about do and be open about. To talk about sex and issue you maybe having in these countries is a far more everyday occurance than in this country.

    Men in the UK are still very selfish when it comes to sex going back to how Man use to be The 'Hunter Gatherer' Urgh style man. Women on the other hand have progressed from being that submissive women / wife/ female and providing her man with what he wants when he wants into being an equal and now in more cases superior to her man. Where as most men may not outwardly admit this is an issue over all subconciosly and society wide I feel it is. I have no issue with the way this has evolved but think that the men in the work and this country have stood still where as the rest of world has evolved. hahaha being a TV I am on both sides of the fence and therefore see things from both perspectives.

    Women today are far more educated and developed than in years gone by, and too right !! and where as men have seen this they do not fully understand how to work with this in a sexual way.

    I have found that women are far more open about things than men think but won't always open up ( hummm) until approached. If only more guys were less slefish and started talking about sex what they like etc to their partners then I feel moere relationships would flurish and grow and the guys would find new exciting things to keep them excited , look fwd to and relationships would work as partnership where openness , likes dislike etc are discussed .

    I have coaxed a umber of guys in the past who have had erectile issue but trying to understand what it is is the issue... We are all too quick these days to prescribe a tablet to cure something rather than getting to the root course...

    and before you start.,.. No I don't work for LH but thats why Forums, online shops and in fact the prog and things like 50 Shades of Grey etc are all helping to fuel a more open society to sex .

    Thanks.

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    Stuburns [sign in to see picture]
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    Excellent piece GG. Even though we can be taught our natural instincts are still within us. We can't help it, it's in our nature. Raging hormones and all of that. You can teach a dog to be friendly but you can't say it isn't going to bite. Dog has been mans best friend for ages and has been heavily bred to become domestic but that natural instinct will kick in from time to time.
    It's easier to build up to power but harder to have it taken away.
    I'm all for equality by the way. Actually I would love to be a kept man. That golf course would get a hammering.

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    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
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    I wasn't around in the caveman days. None of us were, so are we SURE when we say that because men COULD be aggressive and powerful back then, that it made them confident lovers who never suffered insecurity? I would even put forth that men back then suffered MORE insecurity. Think about it, the stakes were so much higher back then, the loss was greater if he failed...so do we KNOW that males back then felt secure, dominant and poweful? Or could it be they were more paranoid and worried and were simply in fight or flight mode (I mean, they had to be! If they wernt they could be in big trouble). Being in fight or flight mode all the time must have been MUCH more stressful on the body and mind, than the kind of stress we all face today. It was probably literally life or death back then.

    I'm not a man, but as a human I think this issue of confidence is a universal one. Insecurity seems to be inside every. single. person I have ever met, to some degree or another. Males and females simply have opposite sides of the same coin. I believe society does breed this into all of us from an early age, but the kind of insecurity bred into us just branches off, down two seperate, but related, paths depending on whether you are male or female.

    Maybe males find it easier to admit to insecurity these days and so it seems like it happens more often, but I do agree and have also noticed that more pressure is being put on men lately, to look good. As you said, shaving, plucking, waxing, pruning....this wasnt such a thing for males even 50 years ago, but women have had this "You must look good, your value lies in your beauty" for much longer and is literally everywhere. It seems like at some point, men were also added onto this insecurity train and given something else to worry about....but you could also say that 50 years ago, women did not have so much pressure or stress to get a career or be successful in a work place...a relatively new stress on women. So As I said...we are all on the same train. Equality is kicking in more and more and males and females alike are now sharing quite a few of the same stresses.

    I don't think it is any harder for a male to deal with "society today" as it is for a woman. Both sexes alike have similar issues to stress about these days and society nowadays allows us to be a lot more individual and make more personal choices that adds individual stresses and strains depending on the person. Women also indulge in todays foods, jobs, parenting, body insecurities and everything else you mentioned that has changed for males since "caveman days" so...have women just adapted better, or quicker? I doubt it.

    Yes males have more testosterone and are therefore generally (but not always) stronger and have more aggressive energy, but women also have all their hormones swishing about inside of them....and their lifes have changed in many of the same ways as a males has, since caveman days and today. If this hormone theory was to hold any weight...then most of us women should be sitting weeping in corners because back then we were staying at home, having babies and raising the children, but today more and more women are going out into stressful, potentially high testosterone careers where we need to be more powerful and driven and successful...If the hormone theory was to hold any weight, then women nowadays should be having massive issues also, due to the complete change in our lifes as they were then and as they are now.

    So, to sum up....I simply believe that low confidence, high stress and insecurity is a human condition and yeah society causes a lot of the stress and insecurity for us all. I actually think that men are not neccessarily suffering with more sexual issues today, compared to years ago. I simply think that more men are simply speaking up about it these days, in this more sexually open generation. Would any of our grandparents admit to sexual issues like ED or PE, let alone talk about sex in the first place (Especially as the male grandparent)? I think this is why we see more males with issues these days and I for one am glad to see them speaking up. Especially if it can serve to help them resolve things and lead to a healthy, happy sex life.

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    MrsMcX [sign in to see picture]
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    I agree with Fluffbags. It's pretty interesting that most men agree with you, and the women disagree.

    In my opinion, I just found it incredibly stereotypical of men in general. Everyone is different and everyone has different reasons for going through different stresses in life. To me, this whole rant, or discussion whatever it is, is just trying to blame 'instincts' on whatever the problem might be.

    What about women the mention of women in cavemen days? What about the stresses women go through? Is that to be blamed on the past too? Or is this just the harshness and reality and simply getting on with it?

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    flaneur [sign in to see picture]
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    Much of the Hunter Gatherer stuff remains for me. There are plenty of people who've had to deal with violence in the same way caveman have. It has made some and broken others.

    I think the stress is getting worse because we all expect more from each other. I can think of some jobs where the standard required 20 years ago is a lot eaiser than what's expected today, although I think in that time customer service has declined (not here).

    A lot of the performance problems mentioned here can be attributed to aging, lack of fitness and motivation. It is worth remembering that cavemen did not live for anything like as long as we do. For what it's worth natural selection has not weeded out such people so the problems didn't affect them much in the past, or is a result of environmental factors today.

    For me things seem to be different from the decriptions here. My main aim is to cleanse my life from as much BS as possible. All of this which is not beyond my control would not have affected cavemen.

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Mrsmcx yes I agree with you how the split has happened. I started this thread because a few ladies had posted about their male partners suffering with low sex drive or confidence. Not some sort of sexist crusade , men's issues are worse. I think that many more women have confidence issues then men sadly.

    Women are much better talking about emotion and feelings and men could learn a lot from women on this and many do when in a caring relationship. There is a man woman divide because, I am sorry just like I would not presume to claim I understand a woman's hormones and the desire to have children. Woman cannot fully understand what testosterone does to the young male body and mind.

    I do not condone violence and I am certainly not giving or using this as an excuse for men. What I am saying is the 3 hits of testosterone that boys get through puberty and into adulthood are very powerful. Teenage boys if not told and guided do not understand what is happening to them both physical and mentally. The same as for young woman and hormones have a big effect on them. These are well documented and excepted but for SOME young men these hits can be so powerful they are just about out of there own control. Now the drive that this creates to be the biggest, fastest, strongest ect. Are being rejected by society. This can be so conflicting in a young man's all ready confused mind. A true example. A friend of a friend has three son who all of whom attended the same school the two older boys were exceedingly bright. The younger one was intellectually slow but an outstanding athlete. On sports days he won every thing and was top player in basketball cricket and rugby. In his last year at the school the head came over to his mother and asked if she could get him to loose a couple of races to give the other children a chance. Luckily for the head she was a cool calm sort of women and simply said this is his one chance a year he gets to excel and be proud of himself. Would the head consider going into her sons English, maths and science classes to ask all the other boys to not try so hard in their tests so he could think he was doing better.

    Once again in no way am I belittling how society and stress is changing women's issues. But in a way never before as far as I can see discussed before on LH. Men's insecurity's .

    This as I posted in my original post does not effect all men and a lot of men have adapted. We're are discussing the minority that slip into some of the categories I am describing for the purpose of debate.

    Hi Fluffbags with the greatest respect there is very little that stress causing ED physically could compare for a woman. I have 're written this sentence 4 times in effort to not offend you. As I have posted previously I admire and value your posts.

    It is my hope that more men and women join this discussion.

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    Ashe66 [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Fluffbags with the greatest respect there is very little that stress causing ED physically could compare for a woman

    Women, as in like almost the majority on the planet, have issues with orgasming in some way or another, going by what I've learned from this exact forum over the years.

    Father figures are not as needed as you seem to think, this is the modern age where you have same sex couples bringing up kids, the idea of needing a mother and father figure is outdated.

    Also, as a bioligical male, almost all of what is being said is well... wrong, we're not prehistoric anymore, basic instincts etc are something we evolved beyond years ago, yeah some are still there, but they don't rule over people, if they did we wouldn't be talking on the internet.

    As for testerone... what? XD It changes a lot physically and emotionally, but again it's not something outside of a persons control.

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    Lou22 [sign in to see picture]
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    Having been with a partner that suffered from ED previously I have seen how much it can effect a person however sexual dysfunction for women can be much more limiting than you seem to think.
    Having suffered from such problems ranging from dryness - sex impossible without lubrication - to when I'm at my worst which is when I have bouts of vaginismus which makes penetration so painful sex is in no way an option. As the latter is often stress related it's something many people just live with so to your earlier comment it's not always possible for women to just have sex anyway. Or course all these things are compounded by the fact that I often feel like I'm letting my partner down somehow.
    Like yourself I in no way want to make this in to 'who has it worse' and it's interesting to see the views on the thread, I just feel that the issues you raise are ones that effect everybody.

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Ash, thank you again for your post.everyone in our wonderful country has an equal right to vote and a right to there own thoughts . Your thoughts are that I am wrong so here are my counter thoughts. This will bring us into conflict and I will be seen as the aggressor. This is not my intention but it will because you will feel I am in some way trying to attack you. Our greatgrandfathers and grandfather's fought and died to keep this country free. So we can have beliefs and not be persecuted for having them.
    You seem to need your beliefs to protect who you are. You are in a very small minority( this does not devalue your thoughts in any way). But you will fall into some or one of the categories I am discussing. What we seem to be struggling with is that in someway I am saying this means there is something wrong with us or we are defective, most definitely NOT. As Fluffbags pointed out its all normal for both men and women but it is identifying and dealing with these feelings. Perhaps you could tell us. You are obviously comfortable know with your sexuality but I suspect your journey has been tough and it is still very limited to whom and where you are prepared to talk about it and display it.Like so many words in modern society the meaning has been twisted from there original use. Normal is one such word, many people now don't like it , they don't like to be labelled, categorised or marginalized. Because we a have the right to be an individual. I agree. But you do sit in a very small minority and you may of got a much less hit of this testosterone.
    We are animals, were not plants and we are not some sort of different breed. We have base needs and desires, because the piece that has developed the most to set us apart is our brains. we think we should be able to control ourselves and the vast majority can and do.
    Fathers and father figures I once again suspect your view is tainted by your own experience. (Sorry). This is so wrong and the root cause of so many social problems and we do need to learn this fast. Many young men fight and are happy to go to war, yes this is used by one egotistical tyrant or another. It is testosterone that will drive most men to take risks with there lives and tyrants use and feed this whip it up into hatred and fever only for there own personal gain. If this is not explained to boys by some who has experienced it and guided and understood boys, take there cues from other boys. They do not understand what is happening and it turns anger then intovvandalism, gangs and violence. For me it is the same as midwives why would a man try to do this(and yes I am sure there are some)but men would have no idea what you are going through physical and emotionally. Plus the needs and requirements, yes a man could be trained to do it, but as an expectant mother which would a woman prefer in her moment of need? Only a man can understand how testosterone will effect a young man. It also takes a man to show and teach respect for women and their bodies. Again I now I will come in for a lot of criticism for this because a modern woman will say I can earn my own respect Thankyou. Young men just want sex for most the woman is secondary, they don't want, need or understand a relationship. Adult male guidance is critical here. Again this won't happen to all boys but most. When it does it cannot be over come with maternal love. In my knowledge of this and I have seen and helped with a few these lads they reject their mum's help. Their is no male head of the house and they feel the need to fill role.
    I would point to a life style that has only died out a century or so ago the native tribes of north America. It strikes me that the respect and balance of life was close to being a happy one. They had worked out over millennia That elder's were to be revered and respected. These men saved many braves from going to war and losing there lives. When they did go to war it was usually caused by a young chief. I am sorry again because I am sure I will get stick from the ladies her that the women were repressed, I cannot denies in our modern western lives this would look so. But there is no literature ( that I can find ) that says so.
    Once again this thread is running to try to get some ladies who want to understand and help their men open up and talk to improve their love lives, and it is also my hope that some men will read this choose to join in or better still start to understand why they need to talk to their partners.

    Please, please understand that you my find my views chauvinist and old fashioned but this doesn't make them wrong.
    Stuburns quote about the dog is fantastic and so so true.

    1396690732
    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Lou22, Thankyou for your post. I didn't want or intended to make this a sexist thread. As the heading implied it was about men's issues which I had noticed were not being discussed much and trying to help some women understand there men. In no way am I saying that women's issues are less, actually I believe they are more and these threads bare testament to this.
    With this all in mind ED is horrendous in the male Phsyc and in its simplest level means you can't have intercourse or make love to your partner normally.

    This is not a sexist competition, but again with the greatest respect it is not the same. You can use some lube or make love orally or by hand. I would have to say my wife has lavished me with both forms of this love making and because of the total attention they can be even beautiful.

    These are very difficult things to discuss please try and understand they do exist and not necessarily the way women think they do. all I want is to get them being discussed.

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    scarab9 [sign in to see picture]
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    I think it's easy to fall in to the 'caveman' theory as it can sound pretty convincing, but it's falling in to the trap of romanticising the past a bit. You've specifically mentioned violence and aggression as being due to not having the hunter gatherer physical lifestyle, but domestic violence has been an issue throughout history. It's much more talked about (good), and viewed more seriously now rather than being behind closed doors is all.

    As for confidence, I'm sure there were also always men with low confidence (in the bedroom and outside it), either due to NOT being the most physically strong or from other aspects of their life. Again it's more acceptable to talk about things in recent years and so this might make it seem more prevalant, but at the same time things can be done about it simply because it's more open.

    I do definitely agree that sport or physical work can be of great benefit, particularly for teens who are going through the hormonal changes, but certainly I feel different if I've not been out for a run or got my adrenaline pumping from something for too long (I'm very active), but there have always been those more inclined to pursue those types of activity and those that were more happy being sedentary.

    I think that while there's obviously changes over time the key things stay pretty much the same. And there were always those at each end of the bell curve but looking at the past it's easy to forget one side of it. A bit like when people say "music was better in the 60's" by remembered a few top bands and forgetting there was an equally huge majority of crap as there is today as well.

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    Lou22 [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi GG. Yes it did occur to me while i was out that you had wished this thread to be more open but i think some of the content of you original post has, unintentionally, taken it down another route.

    Please don't think i am unsympathetic to these problems, of course we care, you have seen for yourself how many threads pop in an attempt to understand and help partners with such issues but i think some of your comparisons, like the one in your previous post is what has brought about the split MrsMcx spoke of.

    While i don't want to take away from what you wish the thread to be about what i was trying to explain in the previous thread that i don't understand why you imagine the two sexual experiences are so different?

    I realise that you may feel those things but why do you imagine it's any different for a woman? With my previous partner when he had problems he could satisfy me orally or by hand and i was happy which you imagine i should be now I'm with my partner and the situation is reversed and I'm the one that can't have sex but i don't feel like that. He may be happy and love me as you say you would your partner but me? Well i feel like my body is completely betraying me, it won't do what it's supposed to so i can't satisy my partner the way i should so i spend the whole time imagining that's what he's thinking to and it breaks my heart and completely destroys my confidence. I could go on but i don't want to get too ranty

    Of course i can't say what a man is feeling in this situation but given that you are in the same position i don't think either one of us is in a position to say which is worse on topics such as these.

    Anyway back to other things..

    There's never going to be an easy answer of course but i suppose understanding is really the only way forward. Yes men are full of testosterone which has certain effects on the body and puberty is especially difficult, that's not going to change. Neither is it likely that caveman times will come back so we adapt and evolve as the species has before.

    Perhaps it is that, while all of society does suffer from these problems in some respects women do cope better because we learnt to adapt a long time ago, until recently men have been seen as the stronger sex so maybe some women are better at coping with the day to day, who knows.

    I don't agree that society is against people being the strongest and the best that they can be. Obviously i don't mean that to be shown through fighting in the street but we have a great love for our sports people and strive for them to do well. I take your point about that teacher but i would question that being typical school behaviour or just idiocy on the part of one person.

    Or course the world as it is today means there are more business related jobs, something which we can't change, and stress will come with this. As i said before we can only hope that more people will understand the problems and men will feel more able to talk about them.

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