• The psychology of sex.

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    pinkanimal [sign in to see picture]
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    I don't really remember how we got more sexually explorative. I think me reading 50 shades of grey had a lot to do with it!!!
    And watching porn gives him ideas for new positions etc.!
    The other week he bought all by himself (technophobe so big deal) a toy for me!! A double ended dildo!! Was a bit of a shock lol!!
    We are still very shy and prudish about sex though and rarely talk about it.

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    wildflower [sign in to see picture]
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    When I had a bit of a meltdown over turning 50 we started to spice things up a bit but now its all starting to slip back to how it was before . I still enjoy the sex but would like it more often as I have quite a high libido. My husband isn't comfortable with talking about intimate stuff which makes it even more difficult but I just want to feel desirable and excited. Don't really know what to do about this now but if I do nothing then things will stay the same.
    I just want us to carry on doing what we started to do before, watch porn together ,talking dirty, bit of bondage and spanking etc. Just don't know how to bring it up without sounding like a disatisfied nag .

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Bump this thread for newbies.

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    wildflower [sign in to see picture]
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    Update on my last post, things have improved! I had to make the first move as usual by saying I wanted to watch porn ( don't think he realised I'd been watching on my own ). Also suggested being tied up and blindfolded along with a bit of spanking. This might all be alot easier now we finally have to house to ourselves at least during the day .
    I think he thinks I've turned into some sort of nympho but I would have thought most men would be thrilled by this. I just don't want to look back in years to come and think we've missed out on extra excitement.
    Sex is one of the few pleasures that's totally free and I want to make the most of it.

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    Briona87 [sign in to see picture]
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    I am not sure if this fits within the thread but anyway...

    I suppose some may find it rather unusual for a person who has not yet been in a sexual relationship (which is weird enough for someone who turned 27 last week) but I actually have the feeling I have skipped several stages in the development of my sexuality and personal preferences related to relationships. In my late teens I was severely bullied for being an overweight swot and boookworm, this, coupled with some troubles at home (I have a really,really weird brother who has had a lot of psychiatric issues and... opinions ranging from misogyny through homophobia to an obsession with promotion of "traditional values" in the world supposedly ruled by feminists, homosexuals and journalists), had led to the fact I ballooned up to 300 lbs which was something that brought on further horrors and insults. Unsurprisingly enough, this meant I had absolutely zero chance to date. Over the recent years, I have lost about 115 lbs, dropped to the size range of 12-16 (depends on the make), got one grad degree, have started on another one and taken up a part time job in one department at my uni. Despite all this and despite quite significant effort, I have found it totally impossible to find a man who would find me dateable. I have tried most dating sites available in my home country and I either tend to get replies from morons who have the vocabulary of a eight-year-old, or experience something like this: "Yeah, you are a bit of a bookish bore but you have a nice face; if you dropped forty pounds you would be magnificent, you could be a model then... You say you have dropped over a hundred? That means you are nothing but a fat bitch with saggy skin, f..k off and stop eating." Smashing. Or something that feels like this (I exaggerate the wording but it really is something of this kind): "You are nice and intelligent but you are just too big for me, I do not want to date you but I "collect" interesting friends to prove I am an intellectual, you would be a great addition to my collection." Brillliant. Or there is the third kind: "I definitely don't want to date you, your body is obviously not attractive enough, but I would be willing to shag you a few times." Just wonderful, makes me feel like a cheap whore or a sex toy to be used and thrown away if not satisfying...

    As a result of this, I no longer look for a truly "romantic relationship" (as it is usually understood, one with compliments and wild excitemeent) but search for someone who would just enjoy spending time with me, being willing to plan some kind of future with me. I completely stopped being attracted to looks (as I can see that this can be terribly misleading), being aware of the fact I myself hardly have anything to offer in this department, and have become attracted to minds instead. I have, however, never met anyone single (and of more or less acceptable age) I would seem to have a good communication potential with, which is sad. Most youngish people simply go for pretty body - and while I am quite comfortable with myself from head to, say, navel (surprisingly, even though I have some stretch marks there I got off relatively easily with the weight loss skin issues in these parts of my body, including breasts), my lower regions (lower belly has a bit of excess skin - was advised against the tummy tuck, though, if I want to have a baby later on - and I will always have thick thighs, no matter how much do I run and bike about) are simply never going to look good enough to be considered "satisfactory" by anyone. I am told to have a pretty face (which is probably true) but most folks seem to think this is worth a rat's fart unless there is an attractive body attached to it as well. Not so good for me.

    When I say I would like to meet a man for whom good communication (talking about anything from intellectual topics to life values, expectations, hobbies and everything, really, honestly and in a truly open-minded way) would be more important than looks generally lands me with comments that I should look for one in a retirement home, or that I am just a sore loser who can never be truly attractive to any red-blooded man and therefore I have to look for bookish morons who would not even know what to do with a woman in the bed. Not great for me, either.

    When I honestly ask myself a question if I would rather have sex with a good looking fellow who would consider me "suitable" for a one-off relief, and a not very handsome bookworm who would be actually fond of me, who would consider me a normal human being worthy of talking to, worthy of pleasing, worthy of being considered to be an actual partner, I would definitely choose the latter one. With a man like that I would love to explore life, including sex, very, very much. With a guy who prefers looks I would be incredibly shy, apologetic and I would not enjoy the act at all because I would expect him to get up any minute and tell me I am an ugly fat monster he could never date, or even walk down the street with. Yes, I would say that the psychological aspects of sex - and of a relationship - are a thousand times more important to me than the anything else.

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Briona, I am so sorry I and others have not posted a reply for you. After taking so much time to pour out you situation. I can only imagine that on the day you posted most of us regulars missed your post. I like to revisit some of my old posts and this is why just in case of this sort of thing.

    Well where to start. First of all you will not be alone this is why dating sites are so popular. So you are a book worm and have studied hard this doesn't mean there isn't somebody out their for you. I think the sort of guy you would like to find is far less likely to be on a dating website.

    Upbringing is huge in how we develop sexually and you have a lot to deal with but it can be done. Body image is very tough for woman, we are surrounded by images of perfect bodies but in reality nobody is perfect.

    My personal opinion is you need to start looking out for yourself a little more put yourself first. You've got a little down on your self and with no one to talk or discuss these issues with have told yourself that what you are thinking is right. You sound a very bright and intelligent young woman. Use this to plan , use all this intellect to turn yourself into thinking positively. You have this ability because of the amazing weight loss you've achieved.

    I am going to post something that many may not agree with but this is me. I don't feel sorry for you , you don't need pity your to bright for that. You need a little guidance just like all the studying you've done to find your way. Once you have it right in you head you will be off. I am no expert but I don't think you are depressed but a chat to a GP might help. It's just like a new subject you have never studied before and you have little experience or knowledge of. Hopefully know as I post this and bring it back to the front of the forums some of the wonderful woman on her will be able to give you more feminine advice.

    In the meantime get a little self indulgent check out all the toys and reviews on them . Find what really gets you going and try to enjoy them.

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    wildflower wrote:

    Update on my last post, things have improved! I had to make the first move as usual by saying I wanted to watch porn ( don't think he realised I'd been watching on my own ). Also suggested being tied up and blindfolded along with a bit of spanking. This might all be alot easier now we finally have to house to ourselves at least during the day .
    I think he thinks I've turned into some sort of nympho but I would have thought most men would be thrilled by this. I just don't want to look back in years to come and think we've missed out on extra excitement.
    Sex is one of the few pleasures that's totally free and I want to make the most of it.

    Well done you , have you managed to keep it up and is he reciprocating. This is kind of an opposite to us. My wife knows what I am doing and knows it's right but she allows life to get in the way to often. She can't put us first and say no to others. However I know this is what makes her such a special person.

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    wildflower [sign in to see picture]
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    Thanks for your reply Gg. Yes, we have kept it up and he has sprung a couple of little spontaneous surprises on me which I found lovely. We have watched porn together , sometimes his choice of film ,sometimes mine. I find this is a good way to suggest certain senarios to try out. The spankings really started to take off now we have the daytime to ourselves.
    I'm finding it easier to talk about things I like sexually and I think he's feeling a bit more open too . I'm determined to keep this going and not let things slid again .
    I think I started to panic a bit,time goes by so quickly as you get older and I didn't want to miss out. I do find these forums a massive help and it helps to know that you're not alone with certain situations in your life :)

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    wildflower wrote:

    Thanks for your reply Gg. Yes, we have kept it up and he has sprung a couple of little spontaneous surprises on me which I found lovely. We have watched porn together , sometimes his choice of film ,sometimes mine. I find this is a good way to suggest certain senarios to try out. The spankings really started to take off now we have the daytime to ourselves.
    I'm finding it easier to talk about things I like sexually and I think he's feeling a bit more open too . I'm determined to keep this going and not let things slid again .
    I think I started to panic a bit,time goes by so quickly as you get older and I didn't want to miss out. I do find these forums a massive help and it helps to know that you're not alone with certain situations in your life :)

    Here's to that totally agree, well done you.

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    Briona87 [sign in to see picture]
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    Thanks for your reply, Gentle giant, originally, I just assumed my post had been overly long and overly dull, and therefore not exactly likely to attract any reader's attention.

    It's true that we are surrounded by perfect bodies, and that this is really hard on women who are (very much) less than perfect - such as myself. On the other hand, many youngish women do, more or less, fit the "demanded" shape and some of them, if they are rather nasty, just love to wound those who are "substandard", probably because they want to make sure men are attracted to them. I have a rather extensive experience with this phenomenon - if I try to be "objective" in my self-evaluation (that is, if I neither brag nor flog myself - no BDSM pun intended, lol), I am more intelligent than most, I have prettier face than many BUT also a much, much uglier body than virtually anyone who is rougly my age. This, coupled with the fact that some of my hobbies are more typical for men than for women (military history, history of political propaganda, biking, driving...), makes me a bit of an outcast in the female society (the one of my peers, women who are a generation or two older than me tend to like me, funnily enough) - some girls I know tend to pick at me, trying to make men who happen to be around notice how fat I am - while they are slim and therefore beautiful - and thus completely undesirable and worthless. Some genuinely work hard to make sure guys only notice I am fat (and who wants to date a fat girl? - nobody, of course), wishing to write me out of the realm of the dateable while ensuring their own position - it feels just wonderful (sighs). I have heard many "nice" things over the last decade, stuff like "your face has been wasted on such a fat bitch as yourself" or "if I were as fat as you, I would shoot myself". Stuff like that is simply smashing when it comes to your confidence.

    I really wonder what should I do - the "simpliest" way might be to try to improve my body image a bit more still, to become more "average" figure-wise, which might take some ammunition out of the hands of those who love to refer to me as the yucky, fat one - I have an appointment with a doctor (got an advise to meet him from an orthopedist I saw after I had injured my knee some ten days ago) next Monday who specializes both in aesthetical and sports medicine who might give me some advice about excercises suitable for tightening of extra skin by "conventional" methods (I would do absolutely anything that might help, however exhausting it may be) wherever possible and might also suggest some minor corrective surgery when it comes to parts of my body that are unlikely to get "normal" on their own. Can that help me relationship-wise? I am not sure but I can give it a try.

    I have actually talked to a doc or two and a psychologist or two about my problems (particularly about those that have something to do with my confidence and with being nothing but a personification of a failure when it comes to relationships) - the funny thing is that they generally think I do not really have a problem and that I don't need to be so nervous and apologetic when it comes to dating; the "problem" with this, however, lies in the fact, that they were invariably people of the 45-85 age range. And yes, I fully agree that the opinion of such people does matter (in theory, their opinion actually tends to be more valuable since such people tend to be (with a few exceptions, obviously, age does not automatically have to mean wisdom, even though it does often correlate with it) wiser than youngsters) but sadly enough this doesn't help me when it comes to communication with my peers. From the point of view of middle-aged and older people, I may be a bright, pretty girl, but folks around thirty generally perceive me as a fat one who is a bit of a "Walking Wikipedia" - when you want to know something, ask it (I deliberately didn't put a "her" here), once it has answered your question, leave it alone and mingle with beauties and cool people. Great.

    Ah well, the conundrum of "how to make myself dateable" is going to be a tough one to solve, I suppose.

    When it comes to sexual satisfaction, I am definitely up for trying to find a bit more about stuff I might enjoy (I suppose I have been making quite a step forward in that direction over the past couple of years), I like interesting toys (and I would certainly like to try more of them) but "despite" all this, I have this feeling that the thing I would enjoy the most would be finding out what I could do to please my own parther - somehow, I don't really think I am going to find him in the near future, though :-(

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    pinkanimal [sign in to see picture]
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    I am sorry Briona i dont really know what to say to your post :/

    On my update seems like we are being more upfront and able to talk about sex freely.

    last night we had a conversation in which he said hes surprised I never tell him to do things, like me up the ass etc

    I said I dont find I need to because he seems to be in my head and know what I want and when I want it and to me thats signifies a perfect in sync relationship.

    He has confessed hes intriqued about prostate massage too so thats a new area to explore in our relationship.

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    StHubbins [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Briona

    Initially, I had no luck with girls because I went to a boys school and had no idea what a girl was and so I couldn't really relate to them. My first girlfriend was someone I worked with on Saturdays for a year before we started going out and afterwards, when that relationship ended, I was at university, I socialised with girls and it all became much easier.

    My point is that your probably projecting your nervousness to prospective dates and might be better just getting to know men socially. This removes all the pressure and then a relationship may well come out of this. There's loads of sports and hobby clubs about and the worst that can happen is that you have a fun time without meeting a partner.

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    PurringTiger [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Briona,

    To an extent I agree with GG in that you don't need pity. What you need is a bunch of new friends by the sounds of it. From what you're telling us you're actually not far off the average size of a woman in the UK which is a 14 by the way.

    What I do get from this is that you value how someone looks far too much. You try to put across that you don't but your words undermine you. Forget about what the bitchy negative people say, ignore the magazines with stick thin models, this is NOT what men want. There have been many many many polls and research projects that have found that men prefer a woman to be,well more womanly! And above that most of them actually prefer intelligence!

    So you have nothing to worry about at all. A lot of these issues are pretty much in your head I'm afraid and it's all about finding confidence in yourself. I don't mean that to sound mean at all and hopefully you'll take it as it's meant to be and that's an enforcement that you are beautiful! That you are worthy of meeting someone who makes your heart race and your breath catch in your throat. There is absolutely no reason why you should not have that.

    Confidence is extremely sexy in itself and there is no reason why you shouldn't be confident, you have a hell of a lot to be proud of! You are a hardworking intelligent, compassionate and beautiful woman! And anyone that says anything otherwise is a shallow, manipulative,selfish, worthless excuse for a human being and will more than likely end up very lonley in life as they have their values all wrong. They may look pretty on the outside but beauty is something that resonates from within.

    Treat yourself to a new haircut, some new clothes, some new makeup, anything that will help give you a confidence boost and repeat to yourself every day the things that make you special. Once you start to believe them, others will see it too.

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    Gentle giant [sign in to see picture]
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    Briona, there I am sorry we missed your original post. I would be very surprised if some one like your self needs our support and advice was over looked. I hope it has helped a little that people do care, a great post from PT above couldn't agree more pamper yourself .

    Exercise I can help a little here , this will be tough to get going with but swimming is just about the best exercise for everyone, it helps you to breathe it takes the weight of your joints and exercises all your muscles. The down side is a costume and getting into a pool . Some do early morning or late evenings so you would be in with proper adults and not spiteful juveniles.

    I would have to say from experience that these woman are in ore of your intelligent and are worried that you might make them look foolish in front of their men. It is classic behaviour. The other thing that is very common is young women who strive to look good find a small blemish and make mountain out of a mole hill. So to have some one to pick on diverts their attention from their own issues.

    I find your writting articulate and written in away that is enjoyable to read. Why don't you try some erotic writting I am sure you would be fantastic at it . All that stored passion and imagination waiting to be unleashed. Write about what you would like to do and have done to yourself.

    You will get there just hang on in. Some body will see the bright young woman that you can talk to about history and military and will find it fascinating. I have to say I bore my own friends with both these subjects . Particularly Waterloo and Trefalgar. Ships of the line and The British Empire fascinate me. My wife has told many of our friends she has no idea why we pay for a colour tv license When everything I seem to watch is black and white. She also says she will site Tony Robinson as the other man in our marriage if we ever get divorced.

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    Briona87 [sign in to see picture]
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    StHubbins > Yes, I guess the fact I am kind of nervous (afraid that I am aesthetically "insufficient")is something that shows. It will take a bit of time to overcome this, I think.

    Purring Tiger > I never said I had expected pity - I genuinely appreciate suggestions, though ;-) It's good to get to know what other people may contribute to the topic that's been nagging my brain, it helps me to break the potential "vicious circle" that can emerge should one become "obsessed" with one's own thoughts without taking other people's contributions into account.

    Confidence is something that is, however, not always easy to achieve; on a purely theoretical level, I agree with Gentle giant (and others) that one should not put too much importance on one's appearance. But (and it feels like a major "but") when you read various opinions on female beauty/unattractiveness, you get to know plenty of issues that can easily worry you - there is not a single week in the whole year when I wouldn't come across (and I certainly do not look for such stuff on purpose) a couple of articles that make me... uneasy. For example, last week (in a column labelled "From the Male Perspective") I read an article written by a guy who claims (!) to be an intelligent man, interested in sports, mathematics, and music; he wrote that men only want thin, slender women, saying no man finds a fat girl attractive. If they (men) stay in a relationship with a fat woman, they, when it comes to sex, automatically need artificial "stimulants" because they are not even slightly attracted to such women, because they don't feel any passion for them. If a man stays in such a relationship, he only does it for the sake of children (or for some other "noble purpose") and should be more or less considered a candidate for sainthood. When I ponder about this, on a purely "intuitive" or "cerebral" level I think it is a bullshit written by a moron who has never actually grown up. Should I, however, actually voice such an opinion, many people would tell me that I am just sucking on sour grapes, that I am trying to find a way to "justify" the fact that I am fat instead of striving not to look like a baby hippo.

    Should I, on the other hand, agree that there might be something to the sentiment expressed in the above mentioned article, it would mean that even if I have ever managed to find a man who would be willing to... share his life with me, it would have to be a guy with devotion of Thomas More and compassion of Maximilian Kolbe (I deliberately exaggerate but it is obvious what I am trying to say, isn't it?) BUT, nevertheless, he would never be actually attracted to me, I would, in other words, never be able to satisfy him on a physical/sexual level. And that bothers me, it makes me feel... inadequate.

    I am, therefore, looking for other people's opinions - is the idea expressed in that article just a fad that afflicts (ha ha) a minority of people (those who are obsessed with looks while being otherwise totally inept), or is it something that has achieved the status of a "dogma", something virtually noone challenges? I would hope for the former option but from my personal experience, I fear that most (particularly most young people) would go for the latter one....

    BTW - I completely agree that small treats can brighten a day.

    Gentle giant > You are completely correct in guessing what puts me off when it comes swimming, I am indeed kind of ashamed to go to the pool. I generally say that I have to hope Victorian swimwear fashion makes a glorious come back soon ;-) Joking aside, I have been trying to pluck up courage for adding early morning swims into my weekly sports routine, I completely agree that such an early hour of the day is unlikely to bring cruel youthful fools to the pool.

    Otherwise, I have been doing about 10,000 miles of biking/stationary biking per year (at least a couple of hours per day, however exhausting it is), I do some weightlifting every other day, add another cardio excercise twice a week and try to walk everywhere (unless I am in real hurry). I am, however, one of those women for whom weight loss is immensely difficult - even though I am not very tall, I have very large bone structure (I blame my Scandinavian/Baltic ancestry) with a 23.7 inch head circumference (average woman has about 21.5), 15.5 inch biiliac width (average is 11 inch) and broad shoulders. In theory, this means I might be able to achieve the "hourglass figure" - a bigger (or wider) one that is considered "desireable", though. I suppose that in some rural society where a man wishes for a woman who is able to carry a piglet under each arm, I would be the height of fashion. ;-) Nowadays, alas, the situation is completely different - big girls are the object of endless ridicule. What can I do about it? I cannot change the society, obviously, therefore I have to shed what can be shed and hope for the best, I suppose. It is not the easiest task ever.

    As for writing, I am really flattered you find my writing enjoyable to read. English is only my second language and while I am totally obsessed with it (and with the culture of English-speaking countries in general), I know that there is still much to learn ;-) Well, when you think about a girl with weird hobbies (let's say that not many girls notice a goof in TV series where a man born in 1940 wears a Korean-war era unit citation, lol) who constantly babbles about English puns (though she lives in Central Europe) and is far from the "standard" of slender beauty, it is quite obvious that she needs a lot of time (far more than "normal" people) to find someone who wouldn't be actually scared of her ;-)

    Thanks for your replies, folks!

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    pinkanimal [sign in to see picture]
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    When you say English is your second language that amazes me as you type essays that hurt my head to read!
    Jokes aside I totally get what you mean.

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    capricorn13 [sign in to see picture]
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    Briona, your posts have really struck a chord with me. I am convinced that somewhere there is someone special for each of us, someone with whom we have a spark and who will love us for who we are not what we look like. The hard part is picking ourselves up after each knock to our confidence but try to be true to yourself and keep looking for your Mr Right.

    The advice from PT is sound. You certainly have a lot to offer. For what it's worth I met Mr Capricorn through a dating agency (31 years and 1 week ago we had our first date) so they have some success, though you have to be very selective.

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    Jazzam [sign in to see picture]
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    Briona - I don't mean to sound rude or undermine you, but I can't help but feel you are either focusing soley on the bad allowing your mind to skip over any good feelings regarding your body, or had the worst luck in the world!

    It strikes me as unusual, and I am aware I do not know about your country, but over here in England a girl that is size 16 is considered very "dateable" as you put it. Although it is true, some guys will be looking for "the ideal woman" but even then they normally still only want a few shags with them too!!

    I believe that confidence plays a big part in someones looks. You are probably carrying yourself the same way now as you were in your bigger days.... but you're not that size anymore!
    You are now a beautiful 16. Dress like it, act like you know it. Let the world see how proud you are and they will see you in a whole new light.

    Story Time!
    I used to assume that cause I was 240lbs no one would want me, and for a long time the world agreed with me. After meeting my now partner online, when I arrived at our first date I was so nervous of his opinion on me. He was quiet too... I assumed he was trying to think of a way to let me down gently that I didn't look as he expected and he wasn't interested. The end of the day hardly a word had been spoken - after a very awkward moment where he kissed me and I froze in shock, he apologised and I explained everything how I was afraid of what he thought and wasn't expecting the kiss he basically said that he thought I was beautiful and way out of his league and so he had been nervous too all day and the kiss was just to see how I would react. We almost ruined our date with our own nerves. Each of us assuming the other didn't like us, restricting us from truly giving it a chance. If it had been left only to me, things would have probably been different. That was nearly 6 years ago, and I am thankful.
    I vowed now, that even though I've gained even more weight, and a tummy that looks like a tiger ripped through it, I don't care. I am me, if people don't like me that is their problem. Even if I broke up with my partner there will be someone else somewhere.

    There is a place in this world for every body regardless of their looks, and there will always be people that will accept you for YOU... yes they are harder to find, and very easy to overlook if you let your fears dictate your actions. But they are there.

    On a side note... I would kill to drop from my current size 22 to a 16... Only cause cowgirl has gotta be easier when you don't move with the grace of a 3 legged elephant >.<

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    Lucky 7 [sign in to see picture]
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    I don't think its a case of men and women, I think sex is so much more catered towards every individual. You have women that follow male stereotypes and men that follow women's.

    You have to have that understanding for your partner, there's things i absolutely wont do, but the things that i will do are because i want to make her happy even if i'm not enjoying it, and she's the same with things that i enjoy!

    But as i was saying, its so much broader than just being male/female, but that's the fun of it, finding someone who likes different things that in turn are going to provide you with new experiences!

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    Briona87 [sign in to see picture]
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    pinkanimal > Some incorrigible bookworms also suffer from a bit of graphomania ;-)

    capricorn13 > Yes, there might be a slight chance when trying dating agencies and/or online dating. My cousin met his wife through online chat, after all. The annoying bit is that some part of me finds it hard to ignore the cartload of offensive, dubious or plain stupid messages or e-mail I tend to get. When people tell you either to lose weight (and call you lazy and fat), or let you know they might find you "good enough" for sex but definitely not for a relationship, it is kind of depressing. Getting messages from guys seeking feeder/feedie "relationships", from blokes who are alone because their exwives left them because they have a drinking problem... well, let's just say that these are not messages to boost my confidence.

    Jazzam > You are definitely not rude, I don't look for pity but I certainly appreciate various opinions. From what I know about the UK, I get the impression that the "standards of beauty" are indeed a bit different than over here. Perhaps it's just me thinking the grass has to be greener on the other side of the fence, but I suspect that it is possible that there could be an actual difference. There are fat girls over here, too, of course, but mostly they only get men who work in intellectually undemanding professions whose hobbies are not more varied than drinking at local pubs and perhaps playing some computer games. Each of my cousin's friends who is overweight has a partner who is like this - those guys expect their OHs to cook their meals and wash their clothes, thinking them "providers of the necessary" and generally cheat on them with outgoing thinner girls whom they meet at bars while their OHs mind their kids at home. Both my cousin and her friends tell me that all men are like this, that it is normal to be cheated and that I shouldn't expect anything "more". Kind of sad, I think.

    Generally, I would say that most young people over here think a girl is fat if she wears a size bigger than perhaps 10 - I can never slim down enough to manage to fit in a 10, that's for sure. Perhaps if I had not only a full body liposuction, but also a new, smaller skeletal structure, lol ;-) Since such Star Trek-like medical procedures are indeed nothing but a sci-fi, I have to hope for a huge miracle in the shape of someone who would not care - it's not easy to meet anyone like that, though...

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