• Annual negotiations - need help

    1356700829
    jaycloth [sign in to see picture]
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    Background:

    Been together 15 years, married for 13. Sex life has been pretty poor for most of that. In general my wife has very very little interest in sex. She generally doesn't undress for it and often comes to bed with more clothes on than she wears during the day.

    Some time ago (I forget exactly when), it got to the stage where every year around this time, we have a negotiation where we set out what she will allow for sex in the coming year.

    It's a bit like an Israeli/Palestinian peace negotiation - but with less mutual trust.

    In general, I will put forward maybe five things that I would like us to start doing/continue doing/start doing again. In return, one or two things that we currently do normally have to be cancelled. She will then insult me for a while and declare that certain things (such as doggy position) are gross perversions. We will then agree on maybe two new things. One of these, she will immediately renege on and will never actually happen. The other will probably fizzle out around February.

    In the past, we have (at least briefly) agreed such outrageous boudoir behaviour as:

    -being fully naked

    -wearing lingerie

    -use of lubricant

    -blowjobs (not to finish)

    -handjobs (not to finish)

    She has never agreed to:

    -oral sex on her

    -any position other than missionary/reverse missionary

    -masturbation for her

    -ejaculation anywhere other than inside her vagina

    I have begged. I have pleaded. I have cajoled. I have romanced. I have wined and dined. I have promised. I have bargained. I have bought gifts. I have psychoanalysed. I have ignored. I have tried everything, and nothing changes.

    Help. Please. It's New Year, and negotiations will probably start tonight or tomorrow.

    1356705400
    Love my slave [sign in to see picture]
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    Don't know what to say but wish you the best of luck

    1356705891
    Plain Jane [sign in to see picture]
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    Outside the bedroom is everything else as you would like it?

    1356708786
    Hen Night Toad [sign in to see picture]
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    In my experience there comes a point where you have to lay it on the line and say it's give a little or we finish it. You have to be honest enough As appears to be the cash passive aggression and snide side swipes lead only to mistrust resentment and intransigence

    1356715737
    ghostgirl [sign in to see picture]
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    You probably wont like this but in your shoes I would have to seriously consider whether the relationship is worth continuing. Having to negotiate for sex of any sort is not good for either of you and niether is the lack of trust.

    The fact you know that nothing is actually going to change makes it sound like a waste of energy and a very negative experiance even discussing it.

    Sometimes walking away can be the best thing for both of you

    xGGx

    1356718277
    jaycloth [sign in to see picture]
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    The marriage is very happy in all other respects. Like I said, we have been together for 15 years and have two children. Ending things is not an option, which is the Catch-22. It's bad enough for me to be unhappy, but nowhere near enough to end things.

    This is the problem - clearly these things aren't that important to her - but they are important enough for her not to want to be involved.

    I appreciate the response so far, but does anyone have any advice that doesn't involve splitting up?

    1356718544
    ZombieCpl [sign in to see picture]
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    have you told her everything you are writing here? perhaps ask her to view this thread. If she doesnt know she is frustrating you then how can she be expected to change? If she does know and understand and she is just being selfish then you need to explain to her what it means to you and ask her what she expects you to do about it.

    1356719814
    Hen Night Toad [sign in to see picture]
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    Perhaps she is so secure in the knowledge the relationship is solid that she feels she can take you fir granted. It is up to you but you may be as responsible as her in this, tough to hear I know but it is the only answer. You need to get across how fundamental this is to your happiness

    1356720322
    CrimsonVixen [sign in to see picture]
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    wow dont know what to say but i wish you guys the best of luck!

    1356722050
    Gyrator53 [sign in to see picture]
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    If you have been negotiating (or, it seems, failing to negotiate) satisfactory compromises with your wife over many years I think it's high time you started talking to a counsellor.

    This has many advantages but in this case two important ones:-

    Making it plain to your wife just how seriously these issues are affecting you.

    Giving any agreement you strike more chance of sticking as there is an independent witness to the agreement.

    1356722058
    Cap54 [sign in to see picture]
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    It's a Fleshlight and Porn for you my friend,
    I know I'am in a similar situation myself and trust me
    If you look after your needs and stop trying,she will come
    To you when she wants to

    1356722770
    jaycloth [sign in to see picture]
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    Cap54 wrote:

    It's a Fleshlight and Porn for you my friend,
    I know I'am in a similar situation myself and trust me
    If you look after your needs and stop trying,she will come
    To you when she wants to

    That sounds awfully like unconditional surrender.

    Give her everything she wants. That'll teach her. Is it not more likely that she'll believe that to be the new norm?

    Imagine this advice reversed. "My husband wants sex all the time." "Ok - give him a blowjob every morning and sex every night - he'll soon give up."

    1356723069
    Gyrator53 [sign in to see picture]
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    I should have said, based on personal experience, that I think it's important to sort this out with some urgency, especially as you have children. You may think you can cope with the unhappy situation but it makes it very much more likely that you meet someone who you fall for big time.

    Once that happens you have a vastly bigger problem where someone - often everyone - gets hurt.

    1356723286
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
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    This doesnt sound like fun :S but as you have said yourself, you have tried everything from begging to ignoring and nothing works. I really dont think we would have any new suggestions that you probably havent tried in the last 15 years.

    Also if you did manage to persuade her to do something, would it even be fun? Knowing inside that she is just laying there thinking you are a pervert and just wanting you to get it over with?

    I think there is probably only one thing I would suggest which is seeing a counsellor together. It seems too deep an issue for her to be solved with a simple meal and flowers.

    1356724308
    MissTerryCleavage [sign in to see picture]
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    I think is a far from healthy way to live life, surely marriage should be viewed as a whole, it's the sum of its parts, and sex is a big part of it, which if it is as you say it is going to have a bad impact on the other parts due to the imbalance.

    As has been suggested, couples counselling may well be the best solution, if all the things you have tried have failed to work, I don't see any magic answers out there that will change things for you. I think you have to look deeper as to why she believes her attitude to sex is acceptable and where her clearly deep seated beliefs come from?

    Personally, for me sex is a huge part of a relationship and if I was suffering as you are, regardless of the children and other things being ok, I'd have to be wondering if I could honestly live the rest of my life happily in these dictatorship conditions over a fundamental thing. I know there are people who do, but I couldn't be made to feel like I was a pervert for wanting some fairly basic things in sex, it's not as if you've asked her to be strung up clad in latex in a dungeon is it... Use of other basic sex positions, oral, masturbation are all fairly routine elements of a healthy sex life, and whilst they may not be everyones cup of tea, usually, there is compromise where all parties are happy, Seems like there is no compromise from her, just her saying no and controlling you. I imagine tho if you were to have an affair (and I'm not suggesting you should) she would be the first one to have absolutely no idea why nor be prepared to look to herself...

    I really feel for you, I can't imagine how you must feel, I haven't had sex in ages purely cos I am single, if I was married and was in the same position I'd be absolutely livid (and yes I do know it's not the be all and end all, but it is very important)...

    Good luck finding a solution that you can live with

    1356727446
    silverdrop [sign in to see picture]
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    jaycloth wrote:

    The marriage is very happy in all other respects. Like I said, we have been together for 15 years and have two children. Ending things is not an option, which is the Catch-22. It's bad enough for me to be unhappy, but nowhere near enough to end things.

    This is the problem - clearly these things aren't that important to her - but they are important enough for her not to want to be involved.

    I appreciate the response so far, but does anyone have any advice that doesn't involve splitting up?

    When ending things is not an option, then negotiations are pretty much over. Imagine going to a car dealer when he knew you wouldn't walk out, no matter what he said.

    Spend some time thinking if this is really the kind of marriage you want to model for your children. Of course they don't know the details of your sex life, but they know you are unhappy and she's not showing any physical affection for you.

    So yeah, splitting up is the best advice. Other than that, couples counseling. If she won't go, then get some therapy for yourself.

    1356728423
    truffle [sign in to see picture]
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    Was she brought up in a conservative house hold (Obviously not in the political sense) that's made her think that doing anymore than what she does now is perverse? Or is there something deeper that's stopping her from opening up to you sexually? Is she upset with anything particular in her life that you don't know about/ haven't thought about asking?

    If not, then as others have said, I do think you need to consider if you can go on with the rest of your life without the sex that you want - and it's not like your asking for an awful lot. You're even including her needs in your list, like giving her oral sex, it's not like youre being selfish and just want loads of sex.

    If counselling or finding out what might be holding her back fails, you might need to consider if you can go on without it. I can't imagine my partner losing interest, and if he did I don't know if I'd be able to leave him as I love him so much, but if have to try something other than New Years negotiations.

    1356729770
    Cap54 [sign in to see picture]
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    That's not my point, she won't meet you half way so stop trying and find you own release
    I've been beating myself up over 30yrs and invested to much emosionaly to leave
    So play solo give it time is all about quality not quantity

    1356732819
    jass [sign in to see picture]
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    There's some good advice already here but I will add this. There are three things that are fundamental in any relationship. Communication, negotiation and compromise.To a degree you've been doing that with your annual agreement but the agreement isn't being stuck to and it doesnt sound like a very fair or realistically achievable one. I can sense the resentment about this on your part so before you truly start resenting your wife for failing to play by the agreement, and trust me it will start eating away at you at some point, I would strongly suggest you go to counselling, go for some sessions together as well as individual ones. Don't feel guilty for wanting more than she is currently prepared to give, if you truly believe your relationship is rock solid and you're not just stayng put for the sake of the kids/house etc then you have to take control and stand up and say that there's a problem. We'd all far rather bumble along and avoid upsetting the apple cart but once the sex goes its hard to get back and inevitably its not long before the rest crumbles. Don't let it drift.

    1356733171
    jaycloth [sign in to see picture]
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    Counselling is something I considered a few years back - and then dismissed.

    If she won't take off her clothes in front of me, the idea that she will discuss her sex life with a stranger is beyond the realms of science fiction.

    I have no idea why she is so inhibited. I think some of it is selfishness, and some of it is lack of motivation. Her upbringing was very happy and wasn't particularly conservative.

    Here's the thing - I don't think it's as though she has a mental problem with certain things - more that she just isn't interested and as far as she's concerned - that's the end of the conversation. For example - on the subject of cumming on her - she acts as if semen is nuclear waste, and if it touches her skin, it will burn through her like alien blood. On the other hand, after sex she has no problem it leaking out and getting all over her.

    She doesn't have a hideous body, she's actually a very good-looking woman. Sometimes we'll go out somewhere, and she'll dress up - when we get home, she'll take off her make-up, stockings and lingerie, jump into a tracksuit, dive into bed and force herself to sleep as fast as possible.

    I don't think she actually believes that certain things are "perversions" per se; it's just something to use as a dig. (Sorry of TMI) if she's having a yeast infection (thrush) problem, she' might wear hold-ups or stockings for a few weeks of the year. If I ask if she'll wear x, y or z, she'll start on about me having fetishes.

    Sorry. I've gone on too long.

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