• Is donating sperm wrong?

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    Gym Man [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Janny.

    Are you asking because it's something you are considering doing or are you just throwing the topic open for debate?

    I would feel uncomfortable answering your question without knowing the reason for it.

    1336610190
    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    gunther wrote:

    sweetlove666 wrote:that is wrong, people who donated before the law changed in 2005 are still anonomus. they have to apply to have their anonimity lifted/ removed. the law did not change anything retrospectivley ( as the law seldom acts retrospectivley)

    http://www.hfea.gov.uk/1973.html has all the info

    so why have people stopped donating?

    they haven't. there was worries that people would but it's around the same amount. (if you actually read the links of information i've given you)

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    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

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    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    gunther wrote:

    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

    what information do you have to back up your statements?

    and stating that statistics are "massaged" is a pretty serious allegation.

    I would donate eggs if I were elligable (have to be 23) even if potential childeren could find me

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    ShaftMaster [sign in to see picture]
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    gunther wrote:

    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

    How can being denied the right to know about where you can from be a 'perfectly good system'??

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    ShaftMaster wrote:

    gunther wrote:

    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

    How can being denied the right to know about where you can from be a 'perfectly good system'??

    very easily....

    Hospitals traditionaly had to be careful about blood group information because many children could not possibly be the child of their mothers husband.

    With DNA this is even more pronounced, not only can a DNA test prove your mothers hubby isnt your father but eventually can prove out of millions of posssibilities who your father actualy is.

    Why should a sperm donor who made a donation be treated like someone who has had a drunken night of unprotected sex.......they are diametrically opposite, the drunk hopes she wont get pregnant and the donor specifically hopes she does. If the right to know means you dont exist at all, then the system has failed in practice and triumphed in principle.

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    ShaftMaster [sign in to see picture]
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    gunther wrote:

    ShaftMaster wrote:

    gunther wrote:

    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

    How can being denied the right to know about where you can from be a 'perfectly good system'??

    very easily....

    Hospitals traditionaly had to be careful about blood group information because many children could not possibly be the child of their mothers husband.

    With DNA this is even more pronounced, not only can a DNA test prove your mothers hubby isnt your father but eventually can prove out of millions of posssibilities who your father actualy is.

    Why should a sperm donor who made a donation be treated like someone who has had a drunken night of unprotected sex.......they are diametrically opposite, the drunk hopes she wont get pregnant and the donor specifically hopes she does. If the right to know means you dont exist at all, then the system has failed in practice and triumphed in principle.

    Children can find out that their 'father' isn't who they think he is from their earlobes, and other hereditary traits, not just blood groups and DNA tests. If both your parents' dangle and yours don't, someone else was involved.

    And what of those children who are told the truth about their origins by their parents, only to find their biological father didn't consider things from their perspective, and selfishly (at least in my opinion) decided that they have no right to know who they are? (And by 'they', I am referring to the children not having the right to know who they themselves are.)

    The way I see it, everyone should have the right to know about where they come from, and as I just said, in my opinion, donating sperm and allowing someone to create a life who is essentially a part of you, only to ignore and forget about them, is selfish, and makes me wonder why people do it all. If numbers have dropped since they are no longer anonymous, personally I'm glad those donors are no longer involved.

    And to be honest, I'm not sure where the drunken night of sex comes into this? I'm not saying donor fathers should have to pay, or be involved in the upbringing, just that each child has the right to contact the donor, introduce themselves, and find out about their biological family.

    (Apologies if you don't agree, I don't expect everyone to, but this is how I feel)

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    ShaftMaster wrote:

    gunther wrote:

    ShaftMaster wrote:

    gunther wrote:

    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

    How can being denied the right to know about where you can from be a 'perfectly good system'??

    very easily....

    Hospitals traditionaly had to be careful about blood group information because many children could not possibly be the child of their mothers husband.

    With DNA this is even more pronounced, not only can a DNA test prove your mothers hubby isnt your father but eventually can prove out of millions of posssibilities who your father actualy is.

    Why should a sperm donor who made a donation be treated like someone who has had a drunken night of unprotected sex.......they are diametrically opposite, the drunk hopes she wont get pregnant and the donor specifically hopes she does. If the right to know means you dont exist at all, then the system has failed in practice and triumphed in principle.

    Children can find out that their 'father' isn't who they think he is from their earlobes, and other hereditary traits, not just blood groups and DNA tests. If both your parents' dangle and yours don't, someone else was involved.

    The way I see it, everyone should have the right to know about where they come from, and as I just said, in my opinion, donating sperm and allowing someone to create a life who is essentially a part of you, only to ignore and forget about them, is selfish, and makes me wonder why people do it all. If numbers have dropped since they are no longer anonymous, personally I'm glad those donors are no longer involved.

    (Apologies if you don't agree, I don't expect everyone to, but this is how I feel)

    Very true shaft master but, and it is a very big but. Donors used to be recruited from students, young fit intellegent men, there is a selection process and it doesnt pay very much money anyway, why not work in McDonalds for a week and not take the risk on your future? Not my opinion but poeple vote with feet, sperm donors are becoming as rare ass egg donors

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    ShaftMaster [sign in to see picture]
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    gunther wrote:

    Not my opinion but poeple vote with feet, sperm donors are becoming as rare ass egg donors

    I have to admit it's not something I'd do (at least at this stage of my life), but if I was gonna vote with my feet, I'd certainly prefer donating after, than before the change, knowing 'my' child had the right to ask questions about themselves, and get the answers they wanted.

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    I dont disagree and being a donor for me is not an option bearing in mind I am 52 and had a vasectomy BUT

    If a woman is unfaithful to her partner she is never compelled to reveal who the real father is, maybe she may feel obliged in the course of time to disclose that her husband isnt the childs father but the state cannot intervene, in the case of a donor the state can and will disclose that information. In the light of this discussion I think Hella had the right idea, just leave sperm about here and there.

    1336618508
    Janny [sign in to see picture]
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    Gym Man wrote:

    Hi Janny.

    Are you asking because it's something you are considering doing or are you just throwing the topic open for debate?

    I would feel uncomfortable answering your question without knowing the reason for it

    Wow there was some response here. Fair question, so just briefly, I've come to that age when I realise I won't have children. But also that age when I feel like giving something back. I love all those 'adopt a child' in Africa style projects but saw the advert for londonspermbank, on facebook belive it or not, and I started thinking. But it is a complex issue, I could walk into the woman of my dreams any week, someone to marry and have children with, and then what would I tell her??

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    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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    GUNTHER

    what risk on their future? people who donate know the end result may be a child. they are not legally obliged to support that child and if the child comes asking questions when they are 18 the donor is more than free to tell them that they do not want anything to do with them.

    those who donate get councelling and support from the centres to deal with the facts that a child may want involvement. if there is a risk to their future by the time they donate they are well aware of it.

    the state can actually compell a mother to divulge paternity if there is any doubt under the childeren act. all anyone has to do is apply to court, if there is any ongoing child custody or family court rulings relating to the child there is usually a paternity test anyway. the state CAN intervine.

    And as for students being intelligent, fit and healthy? you havent been to many university campuses recently! the modern uni blokes diet usually consists of beer and junk food!

    Janny wrote:

    Wow there was some response here. Fair question, so just briefly, I've come to that age when I realise I won't have children. But also that age when I feel like giving something back. I love all those 'adopt a child' in Africa style projects but saw the advert for londonspermbank, on facebook belive it or not, and I started thinking. But it is a complex issue, I could walk into the woman of my dreams any week, someone to marry and have children with, and then what would I tell her??

    tell the truth, that you wanted to help those who were desperate for a child. it's a noble thing to do and hopefully any prospective partner would understand. If you do donate it may be something to descuss in any councelling you receive.

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    ShaftMaster wrote:

    gunther wrote:

    ShaftMaster wrote:

    gunther wrote:

    er they have sweetlove, they really have, donations have plumetted but just like GCSE pass rates the figures are massaged.

    no one will admit a PC rule has screwed what was a perfectly good system, but it has

    How can being denied the right to know about where you can from be a 'perfectly good system'??

    very easily....

    Hospitals traditionaly had to be careful about blood group information because many children could not possibly be the child of their mothers husband.

    With DNA this is even more pronounced, not only can a DNA test prove your mothers hubby isnt your father but eventually can prove out of millions of posssibilities who your father actualy is.

    Why should a sperm donor who made a donation be treated like someone who has had a drunken night of unprotected sex.......they are diametrically opposite, the drunk hopes she wont get pregnant and the donor specifically hopes she does. If the right to know means you dont exist at all, then the system has failed in practice and triumphed in principle.

    Children can find out that their 'father' isn't who they think he is from their earlobes, and other hereditary traits, not just blood groups and DNA tests. If both your parents' dangle and yours don't, someone else was involved.

    its not so easy. There are 2 types of genes, dominant and recessive. The dominant wins over the recessive. Recessive can be passed down generations unnoticed, it can skip several generations, until with the right parther it just shows up. Yes, there are some genes, which can relate to looks and are transmitted on chromozone Y, but they are very few active genes there. I think that actually the gene for ears is on Y, but cannot be sure. Been some time I had more detailed look into this. But genetics are not so easy.

    Btw. I have a hair colour which is not common in my family. There are few traces in beards of the men on my mom side, but really red head in this family is unusual. Looks like it skipped several generations on my moms side to show up. Maybe only due to the fact she was with my dad, whose mother was red head. But completely different colour than mine is. Funny. same cane be applied to other genes. or even genetically transmitted illnesses, like haemophilia.

    I think there was even a case of child with white skin being born to parents with blackskin. And yes, both parents were the real parents.

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    Blueeyes82 [sign in to see picture]
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    DNA tests, unless done extensively by a hospital (not one of these silly buy on line tests) can actually be wrong ;) I remb a case cropping up that a DNA test was done with both parents and the child. The results were that the mother (who was the actual birth mother) wasn't the mum according to the test.

    Many of the online DNA tests have caused issues with that they have resukted in a father not being the bio father but after retesting again and again, the first test was overridden as the fathers were the real ones. Bit lie these lie dector tests, not worth the paper they write on, not that jeremy kyle guests realise that, it would be a whole new show!

    The issue with sperm donation is a future loop hole of a donator paying CSA, I know that a receiver has to sign a release type form to say they won't claim CSA but it doesn't stop them actually taking the bio father to court in the future, if they know who he is.

    2 white parents can have a child of colour, if the genes crop up. There was that case in the 90's where that white couple had 1 white and 1 afro-caribbean child. Turned out one of the parents had an afro-caribbean great great great grandpa but the colour had been bred out over the years.

    Basically anything is possible when it comes to genes ;)

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    sweetlove666 wrote:

    GUNTHER

    what risk on their future? people who donate know the end result may be a child. they are not legally obliged to support that child and if the child comes asking questions when they are 18 the donor is more than free to tell them that they do not want anything to do with them.

    those who donate get councelling and support from the centres to deal with the facts that a child may want involvement. if there is a risk to their future by the time they donate they are well aware of it.

    the state can actually compell a mother to divulge paternity if there is any doubt under the childeren act. all anyone has to do is apply to court, if there is any ongoing child custody or family court rulings relating to the child there is usually a paternity test anyway. the state CAN intervine.

    And as for students being intelligent, fit and healthy? you havent been to many university campuses recently! the modern uni blokes diet usually consists of beer and junk food!

    Janny wrote:

    Donors used to be single men, a single man doesnt know his future partners views on donation. It may cause a problem between them if a child was to make contact with the biological father. Some posters on this thread believe that being the bilogical father does carry some moral responsibility which is a fair point of view. However if ever a court in future ruled that he was responsible then that changes the game completely.

    If a woman says I dont know who the father is then what can the state do? Especially since some dont know!

    In my opinion sperm isnt a baby, if you have sex that could make a baby but donating sperm isnt the same. Sperm is used also for research, if someone decides to use donated sperm and make a baby with it then it is the responsibility of the medical system and the woman who carries the baby not the sperm donor.

    Lavelia you nearly ot me going with mendelian ratios there

    Blueeyes I agree I saw a documentary on DNA testing once, it was all about statistical probabilities not hard facts.

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    AliMc [sign in to see picture]
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    This thread reminded me of an article I saw ages ago. Managed to track one down for the same story here:

    http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/wayne_county/he-has-a-dna-test-to-prove-it's-not-his-son,-but-still-has-to-pay-child-support

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    Blueeyes82 [sign in to see picture]
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    I call my kid's dad a sperm donor, idiot that he is :p Atleast those donating sperm are doing it because they want to, better than people sleeping about and not willing to take responsibility iykwim

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    ShaftMaster [sign in to see picture]
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    Janny wrote:

    I could walk into the woman of my dreams any week, someone to marry and have children with, and then what would I tell her??

    I suppose the best thing to tell her would be the truth. If she really is the woman of your dreams, then would you want to hide things from/lie to her? And surely she'd understand that it was it was something you did before she came into your life, and either way would accept that decision you had been made, and carry on regardless.

    sweetlove666 wrote:

    And as for students being intelligent, fit and healthy? you havent been to many university campuses recently! the modern uni blokes diet usually consists of beer and junk food!

    As much as alot (but not all) students' diet consists of more alcohol and junk food than it should, this doesn't mean they should be considered 'unhealthy'. A lot of the drinking is done in socials by sports clubs, and some of the biggest drinkers will also some of the best athletes. Not saying I agree with it, but I'm not a fan of all students being stereotyped by just a few.

    Besides, this is just undergrads, I don't think I know any postgrads who drink excessively, and surely it'd be these students that were more likely to donate?

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    Chris Stefani [sign in to see picture]
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    Blueeyes82 wrote:

    i strongly believe that blood doesn't make you a parent, love does. So it wouldn't bother me if I didn't know by bio father, wish I didn't know him tbh lol

    I think this statement speaks HUGE volumes. To me at least. However the difficulty here is that what this ugly can of worms is, is a moral debate. And when it comes to morals, everyone is different. So, really, everyone in this thread is right, because ultimately it depends on your beliefs.

    To me, becoming a parent isn't so much about the physical ability to create a baby, but the actual ability to love and care for that child and bring it up properly.

    You can see this of the stereotypical chavs and chavettes who have babies for little more than to get extra benefits. They make awful parents as they put their own wants (not needs - alcohol and cigs aren't needs) before the needs of their children.

    My honest opinion is that a child born to loving parents who weren't physically capable of making a baby, but who are very capable at looking after children, does not necessarily need to know that their parents are not their biological parents. That child has a loving mum and dad - do they really need to have another father, mother, or indeed both?

    I know my parents are biological. However, if I were to find out they weren't, I wouldn't feel the need to go seeking out a STRANGER who happened to have a small (completely disconnected) part in my conception. My parents are the people who brought me up, who taught me to walk, ride a bike, count, read, talk. The people who loved and cared for me, fed me, cleaned me, clothed me.

    I think placing any responsibility on a donor is wrong. A donor will make their donation so that it can be used for the benefit of others - be that to conceive a child, or towards important research which could save lives.

    As I said though, these are just me beliefs. I wouldn't dream of saying anyone on this thread is wrong.

    What I really do think though, and this one is open for debate, is that the person donating should have the CHOICE whether or not their details can be held and passed on to any child created as a result of their donation.

    And then there's that other ugly can of worms - selecting your child, the "genetically perfect" child made up from choosing which sperm and egg you use. That's one debate I really can't take a side on, as I can see valid points for both sides of the argument, and I am firmly neutral on it.

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    in the old days...i first read about sperm donation when i was about 11 in 1971 the idea was that a couple who couldnt conceive naturally could be helped by an annonymous donor, the couple have a baby and get on with their lives raising their offspring. Now everyone talks freely about everything which has produced zero improvement. The child of donated sperm somehow doesnt ever become the child of the man who raised him/her from birth because of "rights issues". I think we are moving forward on rights and backwards on everything of value.

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