• Does size really matter?

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    Gyrator53 [sign in to see picture]
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    Laveila wrote:

    Gyrator53 wrote:

    Alicia D'amore wrote:

    (he's already too big, we've only managed penetrative sex a handful of times in 2011 due to the pain/tearing).

    Adx

    Perhaps you should have that checked out as I'm sure your GP will confirm that with the right technique and care a woman should comfortably be able to accommodate the largest penis ever possessed of a man.

    Eerh. Not really. I know that they say it because of the vagina being stretched during childbirth to accommodate the child, but some women do lack vaginal elasticity, or are less able to stretch. And yes, it is a problem during childbirth. It almost costed a friend her life, she was saved, but next time she will have to hve planned c-section. and it was not the only case I heard of.

    As the husband of one doctor and the father of another I stick by what I said - perhaps I should have specified a normal, healthy woman... There is at least a factor of four between the cross-sectional area of the largest penis and that of a normal birth-weight infant's head (even allowing for cranial molding).

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Gyrator53 wrote:

    Laveila wrote:

    Gyrator53 wrote:

    Alicia D'amore wrote:

    (he's already too big, we've only managed penetrative sex a handful of times in 2011 due to the pain/tearing).

    Adx

    Perhaps you should have that checked out as I'm sure your GP will confirm that with the right technique and care a woman should comfortably be able to accommodate the largest penis ever possessed of a man.

    Eerh. Not really. I know that they say it because of the vagina being stretched during childbirth to accommodate the child, but some women do lack vaginal elasticity, or are less able to stretch. And yes, it is a problem during childbirth. It almost costed a friend her life, she was saved, but next time she will have to hve planned c-section. and it was not the only case I heard of.

    As the husband of one doctor and the father of another I stick by what I said - perhaps I should have specified a normal, healthy woman... There is at least a factor of four between the cross-sectional area of the largest penis and that of a normal birth-weight infant's head (even allowing for cranial molding).

    Still for a woman with problems it can be a problem.

    As for large penises, I heard from lot of women that they can have issues accommodating really large penis, that no matter how aroused or stretched or what technique used (and they dont have problems with average size, so I guess they are healthy), it just still hurts or its not the most enjoyable experience ever even if the pain passes.

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    Gyrator53 [sign in to see picture]
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    Laveila wrote:

    Still for a woman with problems it can be a problem.

    That rather makes my point - if it hurts it should be checked out by a GP. I don't think you will find a GP in the country who would consider what Alicia describes as normal and not worthy of investigation.

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Gyrator53 wrote:

    Laveila wrote:

    Still for a woman with problems it can be a problem.

    That rather makes my point - if it hurts it should be checked out by a GP. I don't think you will find a GP in the country who would consider what Alicia describes as normal and not worthy of investigation.

    That was about the elasticity problem! And yes, that is a problem. I was not too careful with choosing words, my bad.

    I think I will put it better. It is not as simple healthy woman=should be able to accommodate even large penis comfortably. Still large percentage of women dont enjoy really big penises, because it is uncomfortable for them and far from enjoyable, can even get painful (and they may not even have elasticity or endometriosis problem), while they dont have problems with avarage, or just above average penis. And they may not have any problem during childbirth! Actually large number of women in discussions admits that childbirth made them more loose, which in turn made sex far more enjoyble, especially with a guy with very large penis. Yet. they were perfectly healthy to start with, just not able to really accommodate large penis, because of the general tightness.

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Gyrator53 wrote:

    Laveila wrote:

    Still for a woman with problems it can be a problem.

    That rather makes my point - if it hurts it should be checked out by a GP. I don't think you will find a GP in the country who would consider what Alicia describes as normal and not worthy of investigation.

    Did you see my reply? I think we posted at the same time and I got stuck on page 1 :)

    Adx

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    Pixieking [sign in to see picture]
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    It seems a bit odd to consider that people with vaginas "should" be able to take any size of penis because of childbirth, when childbirth is usually considered to be extremely painful and uncomfortable. Just because a vagina can theoretically take the largest penis on earth it does not mean it will be what that person considers a comfortable size. The nature of the experience of childbirth actually changing the structures of the female body to Allow a baby to pass through has a large part of to play also. Cervical poking is also another issue.

    It may just be more practical to go with what they consider the right size because they do not want to go through the process of increasing their own capacity.

    That isn't even taking into account the fact vaginas may not even be involved.

    If people enjoy big or small or medium, it doesn't matter what they should be able to take, it is that they are enjoying what they have.

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Pixieking wrote:

    It seems a bit odd to consider that people with vaginas "should" be able to take any size of penis because of childbirth, when childbirth is usually considered to be extremely painful and uncomfortable. Just because a vagina can theoretically take the largest penis on earth it does not mean it will be what that person considers a comfortable size. The nature of the experience of childbirth actually changing the structures of the female body to Allow a baby to pass through has a large part of to play also. Cervical poking is also another issue.

    It may just be more practical to go with what they consider the right size because they do not want to go through the process of increasing their own capacity.

    That isn't even taking into account the fact vaginas may not even be involved.

    If people enjoy big or small or medium, it doesn't matter what they should be able to take, it is that they are enjoying what they have.

    an excellent and well communicated post.

    I do think the elasticity of the vagina would suggest most are possible but there may be a lot of discomfort, the need to take time to accommodate and work up to it (with stretching/kegal exercises and perineal massage to avoid tearing). Any skin will break if stretched too far too fast.

    However I do understand Gyrator's point and I do think he meant that you may need to spend time building up to a large penis even if you are healthy (which is what I think he meant (amongst other things) when he mentioned the "right technique"). And of course he was refering to my situation which is far from "normal".

    Adx

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    rose hip [sign in to see picture]
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    Oh yes, laying there repeatedly telling myself that it HAS to be able to stretch that far cause a baby can get through is ever so erotic and orgasmic-making.

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    I think there is also another factor to consider. Like there are different sizes of penises, there are different sizes of vaginas. And large penis and small vagina does not seem to be the best combination, as any discomfort is far more likely to occur. And pretty much last I guess.

    Technically speaking I heard perineal massage is bit useless for childbirth, if you are to tear, you will, regarless of the massage, and although the head of a child is bigger than penis, makes me wonder if it would help... And I know a friend told me that even after 5 years of regular sex she is still in initial pain after being penatrated. Her partner is about 5.5 inches cirfumferance, so about the same as mine, so I guess I should get used to the initial discomfort as well. We are both healthy, just I guess both still pretty tight. I do kegel exercises and he does stretch me regularly but after 8 months of sex I still flinch when he adds the 3rd finger. Luckily for both of us the initial discomfort is short lived, but still there the first moment. So I am still not really convinced that every healthy woman is able to take in comfortably a really large penis. Even given time and right technique.

    PixieKing: yes, the childbirth is different, but it is an argument which is very often used in discussions. And one thing is, that many women reported that the childbirth actually help them with their sexual experience, because they were too tight before and afterwards they started to be more loose, which for them meant they enjoyed penatration more.

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Laveila wrote:

    And I know a friend told me that even after 5 years of regular sex she is still in initial pain after being penatrated. Her partner is about 5.5 inches cirfumferance, so about the same as mine, so I guess I should get used to the initial discomfort as well. We are both healthy, just I guess both still pretty tight.

    I've been with my OH 6 years, sex with him for most of that time (minus 6 months) and he is "average" ish girth. I have always had pain during penetration and after a while it increased dramatically. I have a medical reason for my pain. I would really suggest if pain is persisting your friend should see a doc :)

    Discomfort is understandable - so many factors play a part - like you say, some women are more petite, less elastic, more muscular, regularity of penetration can play a part as can the hardness of the bloke not to mention how aroused/relaxed you are etc. but pain is a generally a warning system that something isn't right :) so it's worth getting persistant pain checked out just in case it is something that can be changed :)

    Adx

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Alicia D'amore wrote:

    Laveila wrote:

    And I know a friend told me that even after 5 years of regular sex she is still in initial pain after being penatrated. Her partner is about 5.5 inches cirfumferance, so about the same as mine, so I guess I should get used to the initial discomfort as well. We are both healthy, just I guess both still pretty tight.

    I've been with my OH 6 years, sex with him for most of that time (minus 6 months) and he is "average" ish girth. I have always had pain during penetration and after a while it increased dramatically. I have a medical reason for my pain. I would really suggest if pain is persisting your friend should see a doc :)

    Discomfort is understandable - so many factors play a part - like you say, some women are more petite, less elastic, more muscular, regularity of penetration can play a part as can the hardness of the bloke not to mention how aroused/relaxed you are etc. but pain is a generally a warning system that something isn't right :) so it's worth getting persistant pain checked out just in case it is something that can be changed :)

    Adx

    Its the initial part of the penatration. She is actually just finishing her medical degree herself so she got checked. And they did not find any medical reason. Nor there is medical reason for me (although from the fact my hymen has to be removed by my doctor, as it was too strong and erh... very persistant, but that does not make me unhealthy in any way) . I think its both for us about being more petite and very tight, relaxating can play a role in it too. Of course after initial sex the rest of the night goes just fine for me, but the first intercourse does involve a bit of initial pain. Its just the initial minute or 2 and then we get used to being stretched and its fine, there is no tearing. Dont think either of us would be able to go really with guy with large penis, no matter what.

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    Gyrator53 [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi Alicia - your right I didn't see your post on page 1. I'm sorry to hear you have these issues and I'm glad you have had this looked into. I really hope it all goes well for you.

    I should perhaps explain that I feel this topic is important as my wife is quite small - under 5ft, Celtic and undernourished as a child 8-)= while I am rather large girth-wise. It was a significant issue for us at first (the strain on the virgin male thwarted at the very portal of his quest can perhaps be imagined) however, we fairly quickly overcame the problem and I am sure that a significant factor in that was the belief my wife had that it should not be painful. As I guess most people who have had experience with anal sex will agree there is a very large psychological factor - if you think it's going to hurt then it will hurt and the guard reflexes that you can't suppress only work to make matters rapidly worse. Also, the perception of pain is significantly influenced by anticipation. A well-founded belief that it will all go well is therefore an important pre-requisite.

    There is obviously a lot that the man can and should do to make sure his partner is not hurt. Length would seem to be the easy issue to resolve simply by limiting the depth to what is comfortable for the woman. Girth is obviously a more tricky one but taking things very slowly during penetration does seem to help and perhaps there is a previously under-explored reason for that: I seem to recall that one of the results from the 'sex in an MRI scanner' experiments was the realisation of the degree to which the dimensions of the penis are moulded by the vagina and that the accommodation isn't the one-sided thing normally assumed. However, from the occasional experience of donning a chastity cage over what can only be described as a moderate stiffy I think the dimensional time-constant of the penis being squeezed into a tight space is of the order of a minute - a very long time when one is ,err, gagging for it 8-)=

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Makes me wonder, why nothing helps me and my friend and we are both considered healthy and not diagnosted by any obvious problem.... I do feel bad about this happening over and over again. And I know its putting my partner under stressl, yet, stretching, taking time, kegel exercises, orgasm... Nothing, really nothing is helping. I m not sure how I would go with anal, as my partner hates anal sex, so I cannot test it. I assummed it will not hurt, after having the hymen removed by doctors, but it still does. Without obvious medical reason. So I do guess being petite and tight has to play a role. maybe vaginal shape or pelvic bone shape as well, who knows... But I will never be able to take large penis in. The only reasurance for me is that I am not alone with this problem.

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Actually thinking of it... I do have a butt plug I use and I find inserting that easier than a vibrator into vagina.

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Laveila - whilst I can't speak for yourself and your friend I will say this about my story:

    I always had pain during penetration and my OH is (just above) average in girth. I was a virgin when we started so didn't know what sex was like and we were long distance. I never used insertables due to the pain and couldn't insert more than one finger (still can't). I thought the pain was normal and with plenty of lube and time - it was manageable and once he was inside and I was settled, 8 times out of 10 the pain would settle down and we could enjoy the sex.

    It was only once my body started responding to the anticipation of this pain I always had (as Gyrator mentioned) and my body started tensing that the pain increased such that sex was impossible 90% of the time and only possible with a tight condom to pull him in the rest of the time that I was pushed to see a doctor. I was examined and other than a slight redness to the skin I was healthy. But my GP, being a wonderful lady who believed me when I said the pain came before the psychological response and this was not in my mind, referred me to a gynae. Several tests and treatments later we still had no idea what was causing my physical pain and a year or two later my gynae got bored - decided it was in my head and referred me to a therapist (what a failure that was).

    6-8 months after that, I was diagnosed with the connective tissue disorder which affects not only my joints but my skin, gut, muscles and nerves. I didn't put two and two together until I went to the GUM clinic to get a little lump checked out and mentioned the unresolved problems and the fact that I had a diagnosed connective tissue disorder. The lady at the GUM clinic advised I went back to a gynae with this new information as this was likely the cause of the pain and a gynae could now help me manage it better with the full picture. Finally, I know the cause (albeit an unexpected one and whilst I've had my condition all my life - it was only when it rapidly deteriorated that I realised that daily pain *wasn't* normal and got diagnosed).

    People go for decades with my condition never knowing that the pain they have isn't normal because it never worsens enough for them to get it checked out and get diagnosed.

    So what I'm trying to say is - I only know why I have pain during sex for a whole load of chances. 1) My joints worsening and being diagnosed 2) my GUM lady knowing that connective tissue disorders can affect the skin and 3) me actually happening to mention those things in the appt! I could have gone decades never knowing.

    The pain could be for a whole host of reasons, but it is possible that there *is* a cause - you just don't know it yet. Maybe your skin is particular sensitive or extra elastic - nothing negative, just a minor alteration in your own make up that means you have pain/discomfort during sex.

    Wow, this is a bit of an essay. But hopefully it's relevant? It sounds like you've tried all the things I suggest in my blog post here but maybe you'd find it interesting to read? http://damoreable.blogspot.com/2011/07/vestibulodynia.html

    Gyrator thanks for the kind words. I'm going through a bad patch lately - as I said, penetrative sex less than half a dozen times in 2011 (but we make up for it plenty in other ways :P) but I have an appt with the gynae in August so hopefully that combined with the new info of my condition will help us get a good balance and at least make sex possible again!

    Adx

    If you've read to the end - well done :D

    Oh - also - edit to say, I'm wonky - tilt back too far and am diagnal inside so maybe that plays a role. The OH has to enter at an angle.

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Actually I just spoke to another friend, admiting this problem and she said she has the same problem. Initial pain after being penatrated. Maybe its really nothing. And just something which happens when you are tight,who knows. The pain passes away,so I guess it is not the same problem. Its just the initial pain, it does not stay the whole time. but I do think really large penis may be a problem if I am too tight.

    I do have sensitive skin,noone knows why, they made all test and there is no reason, apart from it worsening in reaction to hormones. So they assume its reaction purely hormonal,as this may happen during pregnancy -first question they actually asked me,if I was pregnant. And I have been put on Zyrtec 2 years ago to keep it at bay,but not sure that would cause pain after initial penatration. Because that feeling is completely different and issolated only into few body parts.And its itching, not pain. To be honest, another health issue and I would likely break free from the relationship and just tell him to get someone better. Considering my age I do feel bad about my health as it is.

    I know your story is much worse, but I dont think there is much wrong with me or my friends.

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    Janny [sign in to see picture]
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    It's funny that women worry about their breasts and bum, when men love them any what size. And men worry about their manhood, when most women are not too bothered..... strange really

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    Alicia D'amore [sign in to see picture]
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    Laveila wrote:

    I'm sure that as you say it's not a symptom of anything with your health and you would know best. I just wanted to mention that my story started out very similar just incase. Sometimes finding out an extra health problem does actually make things better because you know how to treat/deal with it. But as you say, you are probably perfectly healthy :).

    And I can totally sympathise with your worries about your age and your health - if you're ever feeling down feel free to email me because I really can relate and I know how difficult I find it to come to terms with that, especially since I have noone to share it with who understands apart from some very lovely people online :)

    Adxx

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    Gyrator53 [sign in to see picture]
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    At the risk of sounding disloyal to two of my loved ones I would make the point that just because your doctor says nothing is wrong is not definitive - if you're not convinced be (reasonably) persistent. In saying this I'm mindful of the case of a close relative who, in middle age, started to suffer from a succession of problems most of which her GP put down to the menopause. However, after about 15 years it was found that she had an adrenal tumor the removal of which resolved many of her problems. Her GP was at least good enough to apologise for failing her, however, had she not been born of the "keep calm and carry on" generation that accepted their lot without question perhaps it would have been resolved sooner.

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    John1986 [sign in to see picture]
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    pimpstress wrote:

    Laveila wrote:

    rose hip wrote:

    I'm struck by how resistant (some) men can be to hearing that size isn't the important factor. It's like some of them are convinced that we're only saying it to be polite or something. That 'or something' has been nagging me though. What else is going on? Do they not trust us to be honest? Or do their worries leave no room for the truth of our experiences?

    I think lot of people do have worries about their bodies, as we are constantly exposed to certain ideas on how a body should look like. And as much as guys worries about the size of their penis, I think lot of women do worry about the size of their breasts, bottom etc.

    I agree! I have an issue with the size of my breasts! Not because they are too small but quite the opposite! I think everyone has insecurities 1 way or another

    P x

    pimpstress wrote:

    Laveila wrote:

    rose hip wrote:

    I'm struck by how resistant (some) men can be to hearing that size isn't the important factor. It's like some of them are convinced that we're only saying it to be polite or something. That 'or something' has been nagging me though. What else is going on? Do they not trust us to be honest? Or do their worries leave no room for the truth of our experiences?

    I think lot of people do have worries about their bodies, as we are constantly exposed to certain ideas on how a body should look like. And as much as guys worries about the size of their penis, I think lot of women do worry about the size of their breasts, bottom etc.

    I agree! I have an issue with the size of my breasts! Not because they are too small but quite the opposite! I think everyone has insecurities 1 way or another

    P x

    What? Your boobs are fantastic!

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