• Your wife and lesbian sex

    1414185926
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Field Marshall
    • Posts: 2236
    • Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    It is definitely a lot more common for a (straight) man to imagine his gf/wife with another woman but not with another man. I think this is obviosly going to happen because if he is straight, he is generally attracted to women, so that is what is arousing to his mind.

    However, I also personally think this is because another woman is a lot less threatening than another man (to a man), which is kind of insulting really, when you think about it. I think some men are happy with their lady sleeping with other women (or talking about it) because to them, the woman on woman sex is less real. The other woman doesn't have a penis, so its only really "play sex"...sweet and innocent and all that :)

    Then I look over at all those extremely happily coupled up lesbians and wonder....why is it men see women as less of a threat? If your wife/gf is bi (or the kind of bi where she would be happy being romantically involved with a woman as well as sexually) then the threat is just as high, no?

    Its kinda odd to me, but maybe it just comes down to some intrinsic biological thing that can't be helped. I dunno!

    Anyway, to answer the question, yeah my partner and I often fantasise or roleplay out ideas that would involve other people. It's definitely hot. For us though, men come up just as often, actually probably moreso, than women.

    1414191222
    DreamOfTheEndless [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Major General
    • Posts: 668
    • Joined: 23 Oct 2010

    Fluffbags wrote:

    However, I also personally think this is because another woman is a lot less threatening than another man (to a man), which is kind of insulting really, when you think about it. I think some men are happy with their lady sleeping with other women (or talking about it) because to them, the woman on woman sex is less real. The other woman doesn't have a penis, so its only really "play sex"...sweet and innocent and all that :)

    Then I look over at all those extremely happily coupled up lesbians and wonder....why is it men see women as less of a threat? If your wife/gf is bi (or the kind of bi where she would be happy being romantically involved with a woman as well as sexually) then the threat is just as high, no?

    I don't think it's anything to do with believing that lesbian sex is not 'real' sex. That reminds me of the apocryphal story about Queen Victoria not being able to imagine that ladies of the time were able to get up to anything together, given their equipment, and so never made it illegal when male homosexuality became so.

    I also don't believe that it's viewed as some sanitised or safer form of sexual escapism; we like fantasy and fantasy usually deals with something that doesn't happen. We don't fantasise about straight sex as often because we have straight sex, not because we're worried about whatever other guy might be involved and so substitute him with the less-threatening option of a woman. If she fantasises about women and not other men then women are certainly not less of a threat, as you say, but I think we're aware of that.

    In saying that, I don't view any gender as a threat because I trust my wife. I'd be just as happy watching straight porn with her if we could find something along those lines that she liked. We probably will work up to it at some point. I wouldn't imagine that the risk would be higher of her leaving me though. She has the occassional lesbian fantasy. Maybe that makes her bi. I don't know.I think of her as 'me-sexual'. :)

    1414195092
    MattB [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Colonel
    • Posts: 326
    • Joined: 20 Jan 2014

    I think it's often a very simple thing - a man might well feel that there is no reason his partner would want to sleep with another man, as he would hope that he is satisfying his lady fully in the man-sex department; when it comes to girl-on-girl there's less worry about being inadequate as it's clear what he can't offer

    1414197828
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Field Marshall
    • Posts: 2236
    • Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    DreamOfTheEndless wrote:

    Fluffbags wrote:

    However, I also personally think this is because another woman is a lot less threatening than another man (to a man), which is kind of insulting really, when you think about it. I think some men are happy with their lady sleeping with other women (or talking about it) because to them, the woman on woman sex is less real. The other woman doesn't have a penis, so its only really "play sex"...sweet and innocent and all that :)

    Then I look over at all those extremely happily coupled up lesbians and wonder....why is it men see women as less of a threat? If your wife/gf is bi (or the kind of bi where she would be happy being romantically involved with a woman as well as sexually) then the threat is just as high, no?

    I don't think it's anything to do with believing that lesbian sex is not 'real' sex. That reminds me of the apocryphal story about Queen Victoria not being able to imagine that ladies of the time were able to get up to anything together, given their equipment, and so never made it illegal when male homosexuality became so.

    I also don't believe that it's viewed as some sanitised or safer form of sexual escapism; we like fantasy and fantasy usually deals with something that doesn't happen. We don't fantasise about straight sex as often because we have straight sex, not because we're worried about whatever other guy might be involved and so substitute him with the less-threatening option of a woman. If she fantasises about women and not other men then women are certainly not less of a threat, as you say, but I think we're aware of that.

    In saying that, I don't view any gender as a threat because I trust my wife. I'd be just as happy watching straight porn with her if we could find something along those lines that she liked. We probably will work up to it at some point. I wouldn't imagine that the risk would be higher of her leaving me though. She has the occassional lesbian fantasy. Maybe that makes her bi. I don't know.I think of her as 'me-sexual'. :)

    Yes, that's exactly what I mean..in some peoples heads its viewed in a similar way, that two women together can't have "real" sex because..."parts" and a need for a penis to be there for it to be real.

    You say you don't fantasise about straight sex as often (as men, I assume) because you HAVE straight sex, but this doesn't completely explain it either. It also goes in part to your sexuality. If you are a straight male, you most commonly think of two women, otherwise if it was simply based on the fact that the sex was different, you'd also be thinking about male on male sex just as often.

    Of course, I wasn't bringing up my theory based on trust. If you are poly/swingers/open relationship etc, the trust is there and you are happy and all is fine. However, I still stand by my opinion that SOME men are simply threatened by a male and not so by a female because they see a male as more of a threat. (If only I could explain how common it is to see on places like Fetlife..a couple..seeking women only. Its like,...well it doesn't seem fair to me anyway. That's just my opinion) Heck, I have had men actually TELL me this is the case....and MattB kinda almost hints to the same type of feeling in his post above ("With a woman, there is less to worry about being inadequate")

    Maybe for you this is not the case and certainly for a lot of people, but I believe it is quite common.

    You know what I think is a crying shame? All us straight women not meeting near enough men who would be willing to indulge our male/male fantasies! I want to hear about you and Bob getting it on at work! Where is all this fantasy chat to get us ticking? A woman has needs! lol

    :P

    1414229860
    DreamOfTheEndless [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Major General
    • Posts: 668
    • Joined: 23 Oct 2010

    Fluffbags wrote:

    Yes, that's exactly what I mean..in some peoples heads its viewed in a similar way, that two women together can't have "real" sex because..."parts" and a need for a penis to be there for it to be real.

    Is it?! I haven't heard this before. I used Queen Victoria's example because I found it just as dubious as this claim. I have heard a milion men talk about lesbian sex and I don't think I've ever heard any of them say that it wasn't real because there wasn't a penis involved. You'd might as well say that oral isn't real sex because a penis isn't involved, but that's not likely to fly as an excuse if you come home from a work night out and tell your partner than you got eaten in the bathroom (unless of course, that's your set-up and more power to those who choose that kind of relationship).

    I can only speak for myself though and my comparatively tame sexual experiences. Maybe you know more honest men than I do. :)

    "if it was simply based on the fact that the sex was different, you'd also be thinking about male on male sex just as often."

    Only if it were only based on that. Obviously sexuality is an intricately textured thing. 'Realistic' fantasies, while I'm sure they exist, are probably in the minority but the more outlandish fantasies also have to be about things that arouse us. I don't fantasise about men because men don't turn me on. It has to be novel and attractive to us. Animal sex is probably a silly example but it's about as far from the norm as you could get. It doesn't come up in my fantasies though because it doesn't do anyting for me..

    I get what Matt is saying, although I don't know that I'd say it's about adequecy rather than necessity. A woman is going to bring something to the table (or bed :p) that I can't. A man is bringing something I have and so it's a natural reaction to think 'Well, what's wrong with mine?'. If you want to describe that as a 'threat' then, OK. I get what you're saying. Although that example is simpler than I think the situation is: I would have no problem with a dildo larger than me being brought into our bedplay. I would have a hell of a problem with another man in the bed, whatever his penis size. Although to be perfectly honest, I'd be just as upset if it were another woman. I don't think I'd see that as not 'real' sex. Particularly as she schooled me in what I should have been doing for years!

    You last point is interesting. I wonder why man/man fantasies are not as popular - seemingly among both genders - as woman/woman. Are y'all just quieter about it than us?

    1414248709
    MattB [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Colonel
    • Posts: 326
    • Joined: 20 Jan 2014

    Indeed.

    I think just to put it in a very practical sense, for lesbian sex to happen in a straight relationship clearly you're going to need an extra woman - whereas you already have what you need for straight sex.

    1414249782
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Field Marshall
    • Posts: 2236
    • Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    I found this great article from a blogger who is popular often on Fetlife. He describes the point I was trying to make, way better than I can (and clearly, if this guy is writing about it, I can assume I am not the only one who has noticed this phenomenon. He is heavily involved in Poly and Fetish etc)

    http://www.theferrett.com/ferrettworks/2012/07/all-women-and-never-men-a-rant-on-a-polyamory-i-dislike/

    It's a fabulous article and I found myself nodding along.

    I mean, I understand your points (I am a man, therefore I have the male parts already, so why would we need to bring another man into it) but I am willing to bet that this same logic would not be applied to the women. I imagine you have never said "Hunni, I really want us to bring a woman into our relationship, but only one. You don't need any more than one female experience because she has female parts and therefore why would you want to try another" Does that make sense?

    I guess this is where the "female but no male" rules confuse me. I am not trying to be awkward or mean...heck this fantasy (as well as the male/male version) is part of my relationship and I am definitely not against it in any way. I also think that if your wife/gf genuinely ONLY wants to be with a woman, then that is totally cool and her choice. I think I am personally just trying to understand the logic of opening your relationship, but ruling out an entire sex when doing so? Yes, I do understand you have the male parts, but here is my logic:

    Your woman is bisexual (I assume, since she is with you, a man and also interested in seeing women). So we can assume she is attracted to both sexes. Yet in this version of an open relationship, she has been allowed free reign to delve into as many female relationships as she wants (Understanding each one is a new and unique experience) but as far as the males...well she only needs one to be satisfied? Does this make sense?

    I think you are over-simplifying to say a woman will bring something I haven't got and a man will bring the same thing I have. In fact, this statement seems to focus specifically and only on body parts. (which is kinda my point. Its the body parts that seem threatening) A woman (just like a man) can be good at certain acts, or bad at them. She could be rough or gentle, sub or dom...etc. As in...women bring as many complex differences as a man would. The only thing she literally cannot bring is a real flesh and blood penis. This is the only thing I can see would be different...her body.

    I guess I don't believe that one sex is any more threatening than the other. If your lady is bisexual and you guys agreed on an open relationship, I guess I just can't understand the ruling out of one entire sex....other than seeing them as more of a threat.

    The guy in the article above articulates this so much better than I can. However, like anything, I am willing to have my eyes opened if I am unconsciously being ignorant or overlooking something. Your points so far have definitely given me more of an insight into how you think. I am fascinated about this!

    As for your last point: I don't know why men/men isn't just as common, but I for one wish it was! :D

    1414250630
    DreamOfTheEndless [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Major General
    • Posts: 668
    • Joined: 23 Oct 2010

    I think we've split at the pass somewhat here. Just to clarify: this is my wife's casual fantasy, not mine; she does not want to 'see' other women unless it's in the occassional softcore video (and I'm aware that is not necessarily particularly representative of less 'show-biz' lesbianism); and we don't have, nor want, an open relationship: and if even if we did, I certainly wouldn't be putting unilateral rules on it

    I understand what you're saying about bringing another woman in. You can't say "Well, I've already got a penis so you don't need another man" without honestly adding "But you've got a vagina so, similarly, we don't need another woman". What I'm getting at is that in my situation, my wife would be turned on watching a FFM threesome a great deal more than a MMF threesome. I don't know which I'd prefer. I don't know what that says!

    Anyway, again, I think we've started talking about very different things but, interestingly, we're looking at it from the other gender's angles. I'm talking about the female fantasy and I think you're looking at the male!

    I don't at all think you're being awkward or mean. I enjoy discussing most things on here, even if they don't necessarily correlate to my own experience, and I'm more than willing to change my position. There are some big brain Brads on here. :)

    1414254200
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Field Marshall
    • Posts: 2236
    • Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    Haha! I totally feel the same. Understanding how peoples minds work is a massiveee interest of mine.

    What that says (imo) is that your lady is one of the women I was talking about who are completely happy with the idea of "no men, only women" and those are most definitely not the open relationship models I have issue with. If all parties are genuinely happy then all the more power to you and go do it!

    The only thing I would say, from personal experience, is if you feel it is one-sided, or you are missing out on a big part of what open/poly means to you, or just feel it isn't a fair rule, then you definitely need to speak up and work it out otherwise resentments could build and cause a lot of issues.

    1414326659
    Bluebells [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Lieutenant Colonel
    • Posts: 137
    • Joined: 29 Sep 2013

    Fluffbags wrote:

    I think you are over-simplifying to say a woman will bring something I haven't got and a man will bring the same thing I have. In fact, this statement seems to focus specifically and only on body parts. (which is kinda my point. Its the body parts that seem threatening) A woman (just like a man) can be good at certain acts, or bad at them. She could be rough or gentle, sub or dom...etc. As in...women bring as many complex differences as a man would. The only thing she literally cannot bring is a real flesh and blood penis. This is the only thing I can see would be different...her body.

    I guess I don't believe that one sex is any more threatening than the other. If your lady is bisexual and you guys agreed on an open relationship, I guess I just can't understand the ruling out of one entire sex....other than seeing them as more of a threat.

    Further to this - although her body might be different, so many other aspects of the experience will be the same. When any two people make love, man and woman, man and man, woman and woman, it's not just a physical act but an emotional one - a mutual expression of deep intimacy, trust, togetherness, and more often than not, love.

    For lesbians, lesbian sex is of course 'real sex' (not that I'm suggesting you're saying it isn't). It's not just about body parts and the mechanical process but what it means - the ultimate expression of desire, lust, tenderness and the bond between us. When I make love to a woman there may not be a penis involved but nevertheless we're sharing our sexuality, and I'm expressing my love or desire for her by giving her my body. my vagina, and my orgasm, the most powerful things I possess.

    The point being, I'm guessing that in reality, if in a heterosexual relationship the woman actually did explore in reality a fantasy to sleep with another woman, the chances are it wouldn't come with no strings attached, and it wouldn't 'not count', because the sex would surely have an emotional resonance, and might have some impact on the original relationship. There's nothing more intimate two human beings can do.

    Which is why, I suppose, it tends to remain a fantasy, because fantasies are just that - a safe way to indulge riskier, exotic thoughts, without consequence.

    Hope that make sense!

    1414327422
    DreamOfTheEndless [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Major General
    • Posts: 668
    • Joined: 23 Oct 2010

    I can only agree with that. I've rarely knowingly turned down sex with the result that most of my historical sexual partners have been one-offs or brief flings. Physically, they might have been fun but I spent an awful lot of years feeling lonely even with other people there.

    I think it's one of the many reasons now why I couldn't be in an open relationship - again, we're not in one! - from a strictly personal point of view, I have experienced self-loathing and regret almost on the instant of ejaculation and while, physically, I'm sure they must be quite fun, I know that I'd experience the same again were I to either cheat on the person I love or watch her with someone else, male or female.

    I know some people are perfectly happy and content with that lifestyle and good for them for doing what's right for them, but it's not for me. Like you say, fantasties are often best left at just that for some people.

    1414327953
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Field Marshall
    • Posts: 2236
    • Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    Bluebells wrote:

    Fluffbags wrote:

    I think you are over-simplifying to say a woman will bring something I haven't got and a man will bring the same thing I have. In fact, this statement seems to focus specifically and only on body parts. (which is kinda my point. Its the body parts that seem threatening) A woman (just like a man) can be good at certain acts, or bad at them. She could be rough or gentle, sub or dom...etc. As in...women bring as many complex differences as a man would. The only thing she literally cannot bring is a real flesh and blood penis. This is the only thing I can see would be different...her body.

    I guess I don't believe that one sex is any more threatening than the other. If your lady is bisexual and you guys agreed on an open relationship, I guess I just can't understand the ruling out of one entire sex....other than seeing them as more of a threat.

    Further to this - although her body might be different, so many other aspects of the experience will be the same. When any two people make love, man and woman, man and man, woman and woman, it's not just a physical act but an emotional one - a mutual expression of deep intimacy, trust, togetherness, and more often than not, love.

    For lesbians, lesbian sex is of course 'real sex' (not that I'm suggesting you're saying it isn't). It's not just about body parts and the mechanical process but what it means - the ultimate expression of desire, lust, tenderness and the bond between us. When I make love to a woman there may not be a penis involved but nevertheless we're sharing our sexuality, and I'm expressing my love or desire for her by giving her my body. my vagina, and my orgasm, the most powerful things I possess.

    The point being, I'm guessing that in reality, if in a heterosexual relationship the woman actually did explore in reality a fantasy to sleep with another woman, the chances are it wouldn't come with no strings attached, and it wouldn't 'not count', because the sex would surely have an emotional resonance, and might have some impact on the original relationship. There's nothing more intimate two human beings can do.

    Which is why, I suppose, it tends to remain a fantasy, because fantasies are just that - a safe way to indulge riskier, exotic thoughts, without consequence.

    Hope that make sense!

    Makes absolutely perfect sense and you explained this so much better than I did.

    I do believe some people can have sex without feelings involved. That is not from personal experience, but I know swingers and people in open relationships that are doing this and it seems to work for them. However, I also suspect that for a larger majority of people, becoming that intimate with someone you are attracted to will naturally make you feel things, from lust and desire, to love. It's more natural I guess, to become attached to someone (in some way), than it is to have sex with them with no strings attached.

    1414328287
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Field Marshall
    • Posts: 2236
    • Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    DreamOfTheEndless wrote:

    I can only agree with that. I've rarely knowingly turned down sex with the result that most of my historical sexual partners have been one-offs or brief flings. Physically, they might have been fun but I spent an awful lot of years feeling lonely even with other people there.

    I think it's one of the many reasons now why I couldn't be in an open relationship - again, we're not in one! - from a strictly personal point of view, I have experienced self-loathing and regret almost on the instant of ejaculation and while, physically, I'm sure they must be quite fun, I know that I'd experience the same again were I to either cheat on the person I love or watch her with someone else, male or female.

    I know some people are perfectly happy and content with that lifestyle and good for them for doing what's right for them, but it's not for me. Like you say, fantasties are often best left at just that for some people.

    I love this! Not the self loathing part, you understand, but hearing how you found someone that opened up that part of you that was closed off before and how much closer and warmer you feel with that deeper connection.

    I totally agree with this point too. I have had experiences with open relationships in the past and flings etc and it just could not compare to the intensity of being with someone I felt connected to deeply. It is still the same today, which is why I think if I ever "went there" it would be poly rather than an open relationship with casual sex allowed. I would want the deep connections, otherwise it just wouldn't be the same for me.

    1414330639
    Bluebells [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Lieutenant Colonel
    • Posts: 137
    • Joined: 29 Sep 2013

    Thank you! I suspect it all comes down to how you both feel about a third party getting involved, male or female, either in fantasy or something more concrete. Some of us would get jealous and always associate sex with an emotional bond, others won't.

    1414340156
    Ame [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Colonel
    • Posts: 86
    • Joined: 10 Oct 2012

    I fantasise about that and my OH is totally ok with it, and we encourage mutually to think of it ending up in a threesome some day. Dream on.

    1414407563
    pinklotus [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Officer Cadet
    • Posts: 2
    • Joined: 24 Jan 2014

    oh my,

    my husband and i we fantasise everytime we have sex,about us both sharing a threesome with another woman.

    we have a fullfilling sex life, and wow yesterday was so hot,and i met a beautiful hot n horny woman online and we swapped photos of our cunts. no my husband fully encourages it.

    lynne x

    1414421599
    MattB [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Colonel
    • Posts: 326
    • Joined: 20 Jan 2014

    Can I just say from a countering double-standards point of view, that as a bi man in a straight relationship I'd understand 100% if my OH said I could have sex with other men (or a bi MMF threesome) but wouldn't be happy with any extra female involvement.

    1414432478
    againstleon [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Colonel
    • Posts: 276
    • Joined: 1 Aug 2013

    Girl on Girl sex doesnt do anything for me, well a little, but only from a two girls naked point of view. It certianly doesnt do anything for my OH.

    I do however get massivly turned on by girls passionatly kissing. Both me and my OH wouldnt do anything involving another woman, but I do fantasise (and it will stay a fantasy) of getting a BJ from my OH whilst another girl watches and then after I finish she makes out with my OH and they cum swap

    1414456521
    Bigtrak [sign in to see picture]
    • Rank: Lieutenant Colonel
    • Posts: 178
    • Joined: 17 Nov 2010

    I agree with you whole heartedly Eager-2-please

    Post a reply to this thread

    Please sign in to post messages to the forum.