• Is BDSM degrading?

    1403183039
    liplocked [sign in to see picture]
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    I've a question...and a reason for asking it, which I won't go into just yet...for anyone here who's into BDSM.

    Particularly submission.

    I have heard/seen people say that they like to be humiliated and degraded when they submit. Can anyone here say the same?

    Ultimately what I'm wondering is, DO you actually feel humiliated and/or degraded - even though you've asked for it? Can you enjoy it and yet still feel small from it?

    Genuine curiosity motivated by something I read, so please don't take offence...

    1403183897
    CVR92 [sign in to see picture]
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    Personally I have never experiece BDSM to that degree, I have been handcuffed, blindfolded and whipped but not in a degrading or humiliating way...

    it was enjoyable... It is all new to me, we only purchased our first whip and handcuffs two weeks ago!

    1403185599
    Young and fun95 [sign in to see picture]
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    You can have BDSM with or without humiliation, it can be just a way of your partner showing their strength, with my current partner he's dominant over me, I love being helpless because it shows how powerful my man is and as though I belong to him. With exes though I've had more humiliating styles, mainly as me domination, using dog leads and strap-ons, humiliation can definitely be enjoyable, it pushes you mentally, like jumping out if a plane, at the time it's terrifying but afterwards you feel totally exhilarated

    1403188105
    Scorpius12 [sign in to see picture]
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    Hi liplocked, I am in a loving Dom/sub relationship. We do not have a 24/7 D/s relationship, but a certain ‘look’ or a few quiet words can instantly get me into ‘Sub Mode’ lol!

    Every D/s relationship is unique. You make up your own rules – everything can be tailored to your own desires and goals, that’s the wonderful thing about D/s. The humiliation aspect can be a small or large part of the experience - or not part of it at all.

    Personally, we are not into anything degrading, but I find ‘light humilitation’ a turn on and a challenge. For example, being asked to do something that I find embarrassing. The turn on (for me) is that I’ve given that power away to Mr Scorpius, who has chosen what will happen. I can do things that I wouldn’t normally do, push pass my comfort zone - because He has asked it of me. I also love the feeling of vulnerability, which humiliation increases.

    I get a buzz (during and afterwards) of pushing myself and experiencing things that I would not necessarily choose myself, but secretly fantasise about.

    To answer your question – just because you have agreed to something, like humiliation – you still feel the full effect of it. For me, my personal confidence increases knowing that I have risen to the challenge, so to speak!

    Every aspect of BDSM play must always be consensual. Safe-words are essential, it takes a huge amount of trust from both partners when you are tied up or in a vulnerable position. Safe words don’t mean that you don’t trust your partner. They are there to protect you both on a physical and emotional level.

    For me submission is a part of me that makes me feel grounded, balanced and safe :) xx

    1403188208
    snapper [sign in to see picture]
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    From what I know off the submissive is really the one with all the power !

    1403190432
    PetiteJess [sign in to see picture]
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    I’ve done BDSM in the past with my ex, I was always the submissive but we never done humiliation only discipline and sometimes degradation but mainly focused on the discipline.

    Everything that me and my ex done was planned beforehand, we trusted and respected each other’s limits and had safe words in place. For me it didn’t really feel degrading but more like a role play or an escape (I’m a very dominant person in real life). We also planned it thoroughly with everything we done.

    I agree with what snapper said about the submissive being the one in power, in a healthy relationship the submissive is the one in control.

    1403190635
    Liquidsugar [sign in to see picture]
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    With the right individual, I love being degraded and humiliated. And yes, if done to the extreme that I like it, it's very 'real'.

    1403191180
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
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    I'd love to hear about what you read. Sounds interesting.

    Anyway, as others have said, every dynamic is different. Some want humilation or degradation, others don't but the important factor to determining your own dynamic is to understand it should always be consensual. If it is not consensual, it is abuse plain and simple and you can understand the different head space between someone who consents to being treated in a certain way and someone who has no choice....it's world apart.

    Secondly, I actually believe submission is power. Real strength and power comes from submission. In a consensual D/s relationship, it is the submissive who has the final say, usually with a safeword (A word called out which means in no uncertain terms that whatever is happening right now needs to stop) If a sub calls a safeword and the dominant continues, this is non-consent, or abuse. I find that to be submissive takes an incredible amount of courage and strength....to trust....to open yourself up....to lay yourself bare to things such as shame, embarrassment, fear, rejection or whatever makes up their dynamic. In a healthy D/s relationship, they should have confidence to speak up and communicate...submission is not synonymous for "doormat"

    To answer your question, yes some people do get very aroused by being humiliated, degraded and more. Sexuality is extremely complex and a lot of it is psychological, or in the mind. To be able to share...or hand over that control to someone who can make your desires a reality, to put that trust in them and lay yourself open like that is extremely attractive to those who enjoy it and want it.

    Of course, the key thing to remember in all this is that the submissive has ultimate control and that this is just play (Even 24/7)...Play is consented to, play is a clearly defined and communicated action that both parties are in agreement too (abuse is not these things) In other words, the dominant SHOULD have all the same respect, trust and care for their submissive as the sub has for them. If the dominant actually genuinely dispised his or her submissive that much...what care or respect would he/she show to that person? None.

    With my current partner, I am dominant, but I have been on the receiving end of light humiliation play and enjoyed it. It is hard for me to explain why but is is an extremely bonding experience and powerful too. (for both of us) It did push me deeper into submission and giving him this power turned me on. I definitely felt the effects of it too. You are put into that mindset, by your dominant and with a desire to go there yourself. Of course, if that is totally not your thing, your mind will resist it....but you probably wont want it or ask for it in the first place.

    Thats my opinion anyway x

    1403195207
    Liquidsugar [sign in to see picture]
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    Adding on a bit from what fluff said - when you get to more severe degradation and humiliation, it does take a certain relationship dynamic for it to be 'real'. And a certain type of person that can take 'real' humiliation during play, but understand afterwards that it was only play, etc.

    Just a side note, this form of submission is more complex than physical submission (in my opinion), and therefore aspects such as safe wording get more complex too. If you're wanting to take it further, a lot of communication is necessary to make it work, for all parties involved.

    1403195323
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
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    Liquidsugar wrote:

    Adding on a bit from what fluff said - when you get to more severe degradation and humiliation, it does take a certain relationship dynamic for it to be 'real'. And a certain type of person that can take 'real' humiliation during play, but understand afterwards that it was only play, etc.

    Just a side note, this form of submission is more complex than physical submission (in my opinion), and therefore aspects such as safe wording get more complex too. If you're wanting to take it further, a lot of communication is necessary to make it work, for all parties involved.

    Yes yes yes to the last part especially.

    1403219863
    KinkyFuckery [sign in to see picture]
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    Scorpius12 wrote:

    Hi liplocked, I am in a loving Dom/sub relationship. We do not have a 24/7 D/s relationship, but a certain ‘look’ or a few quiet words can instantly get me into ‘Sub Mode’ lol!

    Every D/s relationship is unique. You make up your own rules – everything can be tailored to your own desires and goals, that’s the wonderful thing about D/s. The humiliation aspect can be a small or large part of the experience - or not part of it at all.

    Personally, we are not into anything degrading, but I find ‘light humilitation’ a turn on and a challenge. For example, being asked to do something that I find embarrassing. The turn on (for me) is that I’ve given that power away to Mr Scorpius, who has chosen what will happen. I can do things that I wouldn’t normally do, push pass my comfort zone - because He has asked it of me. I also love the feeling of vulnerability, which humiliation increases.

    I get a buzz (during and afterwards) of pushing myself and experiencing things that I would not necessarily choose myself, but secretly fantasise about.

    To answer your question – just because you have agreed to something, like humiliation – you still feel the full effect of it. For me, my personal confidence increases knowing that I have risen to the challenge, so to speak!

    Every aspect of BDSM play must always be consensual. Safe-words are essential, it takes a huge amount of trust from both partners when you are tied up or in a vulnerable position. Safe words don’t mean that you don’t trust your partner. They are there to protect you both on a physical and emotional level.

    For me submission is a part of me that makes me feel grounded, balanced and safe :) xx

    +1 well said x

    1403220894
    LilHorror [sign in to see picture]
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    KinkyFuckery wrote:

    Scorpius12 wrote:

    Hi liplocked, I am in a loving Dom/sub relationship. We do not have a 24/7 D/s relationship, but a certain ‘look’ or a few quiet words can instantly get me into ‘Sub Mode’ lol!

    Every D/s relationship is unique. You make up your own rules – everything can be tailored to your own desires and goals, that’s the wonderful thing about D/s. The humiliation aspect can be a small or large part of the experience - or not part of it at all.

    Personally, we are not into anything degrading, but I find ‘light humilitation’ a turn on and a challenge. For example, being asked to do something that I find embarrassing. The turn on (for me) is that I’ve given that power away to Mr Scorpius, who has chosen what will happen. I can do things that I wouldn’t normally do, push pass my comfort zone - because He has asked it of me. I also love the feeling of vulnerability, which humiliation increases.

    I get a buzz (during and afterwards) of pushing myself and experiencing things that I would not necessarily choose myself, but secretly fantasise about.

    To answer your question – just because you have agreed to something, like humiliation – you still feel the full effect of it. For me, my personal confidence increases knowing that I have risen to the challenge, so to speak!

    Every aspect of BDSM play must always be consensual. Safe-words are essential, it takes a huge amount of trust from both partners when you are tied up or in a vulnerable position. Safe words don’t mean that you don’t trust your partner. They are there to protect you both on a physical and emotional level.

    For me submission is a part of me that makes me feel grounded, balanced and safe :) xx

    +1 well said x

    +1 I agree well put fluffbags :)

    1403222450
    naughty mum [sign in to see picture]
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    It definately needs to consentual.... And the idea of safe words to say enough is enough, does appeal.... Which seems strange when I had an abusive relationship with my ex.....safe words or even consent were not the topic of the day.
    Saying that...I have always had more of sub streak.... Which I do want to explore in the future.
    I must admit a certain fascination of being the Dom does also appeal.... Still need to get some toys ready for the occasion.experimenting in bdsm is something you both need to be in to.

    1403224409
    kayliixx [sign in to see picture]
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    I have a dom/sub dynamic at the minute and it is anything but degrading. I agree with fluffbags and the others. There are different styles of dom, my dom is very assertive yet protective of me. My safety and happiness is the key to our play.

    A safe word is a must when you begin til you find each others limits. We have one yet I have never needed to use it, as he knows how far he can push. But the other point is key, the sub actually has the ultimate control with that one word muttered everything stops. It is very much about trust in each other, you have to trust they will stop if told to and they have to trust you will use it if needed xx

    1403253013
    Ashe66 [sign in to see picture]
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    Subs probably very rarely, if ever, really have all the power... it's a rather common misconception, but for the average dom/sub relationship, both people are equal, subs can say no and even safe word, but so can the dom.

    (It's actually sometimes considered that an abusive sub is more dangerous than an abusive dom).

    Speaking of safe words, another thing to note, many doms etc will not even consider the use of one, stating that if you can't just tell them when you need to stop, they don't want to play with you, but it's different with every relationship.

    Degradation and humiliation come in all sorts of forms, I knew a guy who was extremely in to it, he needed someone who genuinely hated him, was willing to blackmail and extort him, any sort of empathy or niceness towards him would totally ruin it for him, but to most people, even in the BDSM community, this would be considered abusive, but the issue is when people forget this isn't the same world the average person walks in, what we do is mostly illegal in many cases to start with, so the line between consent and blatant abuse is often blurry, at worst non existent.

    I see there being probably 3 different generalized kinds of kinky people, the first are those who just do it in the bedroom, probably just for fun, the second are your general 24/7 ish people, the third are those who will truly take the “no rights no limits” thing to the extreme, each could include humiliation or degradation, but only the third would likely truly mean it.

    I'd say the third level are happy and always consenting... but generally the point is making someone unhappy, I knew of a guy who years later was contacted by a pro dom he'd seen, she invited him out to dinner, she still had the photos he'd let her take and casually mentioned they could be posted to his Facebook etc, he loved it and he kept taking her to the same restaurant once a month, you hear a lot of people in chastity with discomfort or even serious injury being told to stop whining about it, in some cases this is blatant stupidity, as in the dom doesn't know what their doing, but in others it's intentional to remind the sub/slave of their place.

    Ultimately it's up to you what you are happy to do and more importantly not do.

    1403296875
    Fluffbags [sign in to see picture]
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    Ashe66 wrote:

    Subs probably very rarely, if ever, really have all the power... it's a rather common misconception, but for the average dom/sub relationship, both people are equal, subs can say no and even safe word, but so can the dom.

    (It's actually sometimes considered that an abusive sub is more dangerous than an abusive dom).

    Speaking of safe words, another thing to note, many doms etc will not even consider the use of one, stating that if you can't just tell them when you need to stop, they don't want to play with you, but it's different with every relationship.

    Degradation and humiliation come in all sorts of forms, I knew a guy who was extremely in to it, he needed someone who genuinely hated him, was willing to blackmail and extort him, any sort of empathy or niceness towards him would totally ruin it for him, but to most people, even in the BDSM community, this would be considered abusive, but the issue is when people forget this isn't the same world the average person walks in, what we do is mostly illegal in many cases to start with, so the line between consent and blatant abuse is often blurry, at worst non existent.

    I see there being probably 3 different generalized kinds of kinky people, the first are those who just do it in the bedroom, probably just for fun, the second are your general 24/7 ish people, the third are those who will truly take the “no rights no limits” thing to the extreme, each could include humiliation or degradation, but only the third would likely truly mean it.

    I'd say the third level are happy and always consenting... but generally the point is making someone unhappy, I knew of a guy who years later was contacted by a pro dom he'd seen, she invited him out to dinner, she still had the photos he'd let her take and casually mentioned they could be posted to his Facebook etc, he loved it and he kept taking her to the same restaurant once a month, you hear a lot of people in chastity with discomfort or even serious injury being told to stop whining about it, in some cases this is blatant stupidity, as in the dom doesn't know what their doing, but in others it's intentional to remind the sub/slave of their place.

    Ultimately it's up to you what you are happy to do and more importantly not do.

    I believe submission is power....NOT that subs have all the power. This would be considered topping from the bottom...I think. A healthy D/s relationship is equal, or should be, in terms of needs being met, concerns being addressed and more...but within a scene, the submissive has a powerful final say should they need to use it.

    Abuse is abuse in any relationship....no matter how you label it...D/s or not and it can come from either side of any coin, either gender, either partner. I don't see how one form of abuse could ever be classed as more dangerous or more urgent than another. Abuse is bad to anyone suffering.

    Finally, regarding safe words - People often use a safe word so that they can feel free to call out words such as "Stop" (It may even be part of their fantasy) some may not - and "stop" might be their safe word (Either way, its still a signal to stop) if you ever meet a dom to begin playing and he says he doesnt want to use any kind of safe words - run! If he has no respect for your bounderies....run! While I will concede that some couples drop the safeword after getting into a long term relationship, building up knowledge and ultimate trust and knowing their partners reactions and body language etc and they choose to, that is their choice, but a new partnership? I would not get involved with any Dom who told me my safeword didnt matter otherwise I wasn't being a "Twue sub"

    If you are in any relationship where the line between consent and blatent abuse is blurry or non existant. This is just...not healthy D/s. The simple truth is if you do something to somebody that they did not consent to - then that is crossing the line. However, if you sat down, communicated and agreed on your limits and have the safeword in place...you are defining your line...making your limits clear and yes, sometimes things can pop up that are unexpected, or unintentional, but you would discuss this, work through it, draw more lines in the sand and re-evaluate. In abuse, you do not have this control or power to say "I do not want that", nor did you give consent. The bad kind of hurt is done to you intentionally by another with the purpose to make you feel bad, rather than good. D/s is about mutually building trust in a relationship, abuse is about tearing that down.

    And for some, being made to feel bad, makes them feel good. However, they ultimately ask to be treated this way, normally laying down again, their lines in the sand and having the power to safe word or walk away if the other person is abusive.

    The sub should always be able to come forth with serious concerns (such as the pain or damage to his genitals in your chastity scenario) and tell his D type the issues. If it really was a case of the Dominant ignoring health risks or serious damage (to which he did not consent) then he has that power to say "Sorry, this is over" and walk away.

    Despite that, I understand that some people can become so involved in the emotions of it all that they would allow themselves to be pushed into levels of discomfort for their D type. Like someone else here said, the safe word itself can become a complex issue, when subs are in sub space, pushing themselves for their Dom. It is just as much the responsibility of the dominant to be watching for this. Building over time together and learning your partners reactions, knowing when they are in that state of being unable to call, but pushed to their limits. The D-type should be aware of this and constantly watching, asking questions, checking in. Both players need to have the other persons safety, health and overall happiness in mind, but just like in vanilla relationships, the possibility to abuse is there.

    Just like a normal relationship...sometimes it is clear you are not compatible or good for each other.

    Imo - D/s is about buildin a controlled environment to have fun. Abuse is just out of control ehaviour designed to hurt. There is no respect or consideration in abuse.

    So imo - you can define many differences between Abuse and BDSM.

    I found an interesting article defining the differences here:

    http://www.sirbamm.com/smvabuse.html

    1403306979
    liplocked [sign in to see picture]
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    Wooooow, so many great replies!! I'm going to take time to read and digest them properly tomorrow when I'm not quite so tired, but thanks everyone :)

    1403333116
    Ashe66 [sign in to see picture]
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    When I said about people not using safewords, I meant they literally communicate during play, if it hurts too much they say so etc, no safeword is needed because of the level of communication, which can help a lot better than a safeword which is generally only used after going past a limit.

    As for abuse, I know all about it and am aware of the difference between BDSM and abuse, but what many people define as a healthy BDSM relationship others might consider unhealthy, I should probably have noted I don't consider injuries etc being ignored as healthy, but in saying that the line can be blurry at times.

    In a scene both the dom and sub could theoretically use the safeword, but my point about them holding all the power was in response to:

    From what I know off the submissive is really the one with all the power !

    Probably could have been clearer as to the fact I was responding to that, not just generally everyone XD

    1403337190
    chunkyg [sign in to see picture]
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    We are also in a loving Dom / sub marriage. I think the answer to original question has to be about context and the communication within a relationship. I can usually turn my wife from feisty and cheeky to submissive with a look, a word or a very subtle pat of the bottom. During a scene some people might call the words / looks / actions I use humiliating........but I do it as a mechanism to take control and ensure she is turned on to the levels I know she thrives on.....she nevers feels humiliated because she trusts me.

    Great question but almost impossible to answer generically because it is all about dynamics between the two people.

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