Slave labour?

 A friend of mine on Facebook showed me this was wondering people's thought's?

http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/uk/2012/jun/04/jubilee-pageant-unemployed?post_gdp=true

I just picked up the story from Twitter, am horrified that in a 'civilised' country people are being treated in such an appalling way. It shows that the pomp & pagentry is just an illusion, painting over the cracks and damages the already fragile reputation of the Royal family.

The fact that the same security firm has won the contract for the Olympics will damage this countries reputation further. Personally I think that although it is short notice the contract should be pulled and the other companies that tendered be given the oportunity to retender.

xGGx

Oh. My God!

That is utterly disguisting!!

I am against The Work Programme 100% already after they were trying to force me in to a course (with no top up on my benefit) for 6 hours a day when I am disabled and unable to work, or stay comfortable or keep concentration for 6 hours. They also pushed and pushed for me to go into work, when I clearly cannot, and when I told them as much, they phoned up the Job Centre to ask if I could be put on the list for volentary work! Thankfully my personal advisor was really nice and she is one of the very few out there who actually try to do what is best for people, so she refused the request.

I hate The Work Programme and what they do. I am on Employment and Support Allowance (now on the Support Component, so I am now exempt from taking part in The Work Programme) but despite being VERY limited for work, they still lumped me in with Job Seekers in every way. I'm just glad that I'm not as stupid as I look and managed to fob them off for as long as I did until I recieved my Support Component.

After my very first appointment with the Work Programme, I actually had to put a complaint in. I went in with my two crutches and they knew already that I walked with two crutches, that I was not able to work and that I was disabled. But I had to walk up a hill to get there, and when I got to the office, the two women invited me in to this tiny little room. They both stared at me as I hobbled in the room, and one piped up "Whats all this about?" then began mimicing my walking movement in very bad taste! Then they both laughed at me. I said "You know I'm disabled" and they replied "Yeah, but there is no need for this *more mimicing* is there?" *more laughing*

How I didn't walk back out, I don't know. I think curiosity got the better of me to find out what else they would say...

In this tiny little room, the other woman said to me "By the way, you can't expect to get a job with BO like that, can you?" As a matter of fact, I had been severely stressed out the past couple of days, my partner and I had just had a big argument, and I couldn't get a shower. I also had just been hiking up a big hill with a lot of difficulty and was in severe pain which made me sweat, and I was running late so had to get up there quickly - this leaving me a bit funky and near to collapsing! I tried to explain myself, but the women just laughed again, one of them holding her nose and saying "Oooh! We'll have to evacuate the room!"

I had two big sticks in each hand ... would have been so easy to clobber them!

I reported them when I got home. I phoned up the manager of my Job Centre Plus to tell her what had happened and I phoned the company who runs the Work Programme and claimed I was willing to go to the newspapers about this discrimination. I probably should have. Its not like I got any real victory from it, except the mockery ceasing when I returned to the Programme. One of the women (the one who called attention to my sweating) did not get involved with my appointments since. The other, who made mockery of my walking with crutches was very, very wary at my next appointment and did things very formally.

As for this article of them sending the unemployed to sleep under the bridge before stewarding the jubilee unpaid... well... When I read this:

Two jobseekers, who did not want to be identified in case they lost their benefits, said they had to camp under London Bridge the night before the pageant. They told the Guardian they had to change into security gear in public, had no access to toilets for 24 hours, and were taken to a swampy campsite outside London after working a 14-hour shift in the pouring rain on the banks of the Thames on Sunday.

I wish I had taken a snapshot of my expression.... O.O

and that the experience was voluntary and did not affect jobseekers keeping their benefits.

Why do I not believe that one bit? If it was with The Work Programme, then I have major doubts about that claim. One of the terms and conditions of The Work Programme is that your benefit may be affected or be subjected to a sanction if you fail to carry out actions agreed with The Work Programme. Now, in the time that I have been involved with the Programme, you are given an Action Plan after each appointment. I never got my action plans there and then because they claimed that they needed typing up, or they had trouble with the printer. And also because I was given telephone appointments for that last few months, so the Action Plans were sent to me through post. Thing is, more than once, the action plans have had "agreements" on which I did not agree to. But because it is all on their system, if I did not carry the actions through, then my benefit would be affected. And because it is down as an "agreement" then I could not back out of it, or dispute it, because it is on their system as something I "agreed" to do.

So basically, they can get away with doing whatever the hell they like and if you don't like it, you benefit is stopped!

Geeezzz.... No wonder Prince Philip thinks slavery is still acceptable!

Sorry... just noticed that I have ranted on and on about the Work Programme, and nothing about the firm they volenteered for... The working conditions were just appalling and the firm has clearly not given any concern to the main issues raised, nor even admitting them!

Since they are receiving benefits how is it slave labour?

Yeah there is worse happening. At least now if you're a certain age and fit and healthy the working for your benefits scheme is not compulsory - but it is compulsory for the disabled and if you withdraw you lose your benefits. Once you've agreed to doing it - you must work where you are placed, without pay for up to 8 weeks (though this is different for disabled people too) or face losing your benefits for a week, a month or 3 months as a penalty. Not only does this prevent the unemployed getting full time jobs (why hire when you can get the unemployed working for free?) but it forces people who are too sick to work into worse health.

Considering even a guy who is too sick to receive the kidney transplant he needs (he's been removed from the transplant list accordingly) so has dialysis 3 times a week and has to sleep off the affects for 24hours, the guy who's had 14 heart attacks and is only 50 - he's just been deemed as having the potential to be well enough for work in the future and therefore will have his benefits stopped shortly and must attend interviews to prove he is actively looking for work or else will lose *all* support. If he doesn't have the support he needs - what happens for the rest of the unemployed or disabled.

It absolutely terrifies me - I hope to goodness I am never unfortunate enough to need to claim JSA or ESA or disability benefits. But it could happen to anyone, anyone could lose their job tomorrow or be hit by a bus!

Adx

 its also the fact that "we're all in this together" while some are basically being forced to work for their benifits ( as cheap labour to line the pockets of those companies who allready make millions) at a celebration costing millions for a woman who only pays income tax by choice!

I've done two work programmes!!! they are utter $hit!! first one! was no health & saftey the place was no even vetted!! I did stick up for myself when the work placement officer wanted me to do 9 to 5 even day!! I say if theys the case I want to be paid and signed off!

I am now I've got a real job 50hours a week from 5pm to 4AM night shifts 5 days a week!! I would say love the job, and I don't mind being told what to do, by my manger! Well I get paid for doing it! only £6.30!!

gunther wrote:

Since they are receiving benefits how is it slave labour?

Because they were recieving the benefits before doing the work. Benefits, in my view at least, do not count as payment for work. Job Seekers Allowance is not payment for working, it is a benefit for the time you are out of work. For paid work, you must be given payment with a contract stating the amount you will recieve on an hourly basis, or salary. JSA doesn't count for that as far as I understand it...

Alicia D'amore wrote:

 At least now if you're a certain age and fit and healthy the working for your benefits scheme is not compulsory - but it is compulsory for the disabled and if you withdraw you lose your benefits

This doesn't make sense at all!

Aniko slave labour means not being paid, the condition of the jubilee workers cannot in the opinion of His Majesty's Government be classified as slavery; at least, that word in its full sense could not be applied without a risk of terminological inexactitude.

Slave labour is a simplistic way of putting it though I left the question mark due to the fact I can't agree entirely with the label of slave labour enforced labour maybe? 

Will be back later to throw up my own view's 

gunther wrote:

Aniko slave labour means not being paid, the condition of the jubilee workers cannot in the opinion of His Majesty's Government be classified as slavery; at least, that word in its full sense could not be applied without a risk of terminological inexactitude.

Not true. Many slaves historically were paid. And those that weren't were typically given food and a place to live. Slavery is forced work not work without pay. In fact you can even be subject to wage slavery. Ask many (not all of course) prostitutes and they will tell you that you can be forced to work yet still be paid for the work you do.

Adx

The people concerned were long term unemployed, after claiming benefits long term they are asked/told to do something for a few days and moan anonymously to the press, they wont be anonymous when they sign on for their benefits though. It simply isnt slavery or forced labour in my book if they dont want to do it then fine but dont expect me to finance their life.

I have been unemployed for lengthy periods (about 5 yrs in total) once voluntarily, I havnt claimed benefits since 1985

gunther wrote:

The people concerned were long term unemployed, after claiming benefits long term they are asked/told to do something for a few days and moan anonymously to the press, they wont be anonymous when they sign on for their benefits though. It simply isnt slavery or forced labour in my book if they dont want to do it then fine but dont expect me to finance their life.

I have been unemployed for lengthy periods (about 5 yrs in total) once voluntarily, I havnt claimed benefits since 1985

I think that the way they were treated in the work placement/volenteering/whatever in this instance was entirely wrong. You would never stand for that sort of treatment in paid work, why accept it just because the job centre told you to? The firm broke a lot of rules and could even be followed up by the likes of HSE for the treatment of those people. Not having anywhere to go to the toilet for 24 hours, having to sleep under the bridge, have to change in to uniforms in public, being told they would be paid to begin with then told otherwise.

I would never stand for that sort of treatment. It isn't "moaning", it is a rightful complaint to raise by law!

many people have worse as volunteers   mountain rescue for example

gunther wrote:

many people have worse as volunteers   mountain rescue for example

Yes. But they do follow as best as they can to Health and Safety and are given the appropriate equiptment. They are trained and they are looked after.

These people were not looked after. It's disguisting in my view.

I'm going to take my leave here before I get angry...

gunther wrote:

The people concerned were long term unemployed, after claiming benefits long term they are asked/told to do something for a few days and moan anonymously to the press, they wont be anonymous when they sign on for their benefits though. It simply isnt slavery or forced labour in my book if they dont want to do it then fine but dont expect me to finance their life.

It's compulsory even if you're disabled and there is no limit on the time scale for a person suffering with disability http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/feb/17/disabled-unpaid-work-benefit-cuts-documents

If you're being mandated to work full time hours for no more than your benefits (which is meagre) then to me, that is completely unacceptable. It's a heck of a lot lower than minimum wage.

Unemployment is scarily high, people don't choose to be unemployed. Make it voluntary and you solve half of the problem - because mandatory is supposed to force the people who choose not to work; they're the ones who will find a loop hole. It's punishing people who would do anything they could to work but through various reasons cannot. Even if you are "merely" unemployed but are able to work - if you are told you must work and what times you must work, even if you have children and for no extra pay. How do you fund child care?

The thing is, it all sounds so reasonable - until you realise the implications on people's lives. It works for some people yes, so make it voluntary. Don't force people into work when they're too sick or logistically cannot without being paid.

Adx

gunther wrote:

many people have worse as volunteers   mountain rescue for example

Doesn't matter. You get hit by a bus tomorrow - you don't lose access to healthcare because people have worse. That's an illogical argument.

Adx

 I think the biggest issue is that these programs are causing more problem's than there worth last year I had a job in the kitchen at an animal park while I was at college ALL of the manual laborer’s were on the dough apart from those rare few ho were needed for there skill's including the only other chef and the manager's as well as one or two animal care specialist's.

The problem being none of them was going to get a job they knew it the place knew it and the job center new it it was some sort of deal and there was no covering it up it was blatant “volunteering” if you refused fine you would lose your benefits! It may come as a shock to some but that could be disastrous for some people and could even mean homelessness or whatever.

Now you see none of this bothered me because at the time I was working so hard that there was no time to notice I was doing dishes for both the waiting and kitchen staff I was being under paid cash in hand the hour's were all to hell and a case of can you do 11 to whatever you turn up at 9 and work till about 6 but hell I loved it.

But then it bothered me because suddenly one day there was some random job seeker standing in the kitchen when I went in and I got a weird look from the chef that said today would be hell! At the end of the day I got my money as usual and suddenly the manager showed up only to tell me in the nicest way possible were replacing you with someone ho we don't need to pay!

I'm now leaving college in less than two week's I still haven’t been able to get another job and have to say these thing's are taking more job's than making them not to mention the fact some people genuinely don't want a job and put in no effort but they have as much chance of success as I do because the minute you tell the job center you have applied some where they will force countless others to apply ho will probably have to go to an interview screwing your chance's.

As for the whole slave labor thing I think it's kind of what it was meant for? I mean companies are being payed to take people do the math ho's really playing the system here?  

gunther wrote:

The people concerned were long term unemployed, after claiming benefits long term they are asked/told to do something for a few days and moan anonymously to the press, they wont be anonymous when they sign on for their benefits though. It simply isnt slavery or forced labour in my book if they dont want to do it then fine but dont expect me to finance their life.

I have been unemployed for lengthy periods (about 5 yrs in total) once voluntarily, I havnt claimed benefits since 1985

Glad you have some experience so know what your talking about but that was then this is a tottally different time and though I won't pretend to understand what it was like back then I know now a day's they have the power to stop your benefit's the second you annoy them and if they do they probably get a pat on the back for it!

As for you financing there live's... well yeah but how much taxe's are you paying that you would be paying for all of the concerned? You enjoy a lot of stuff such as health care and what not for your taxe's even if the system isn't perfect it has come a long way but it's to easy to forget when your employed as to what it's like especially in a double dip reccesion looking at a triple dip!