• Aspartame

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    him'n'her [sign in to see picture]
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    Not being cocky, just replying to a point you raised.

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    him'n'her [sign in to see picture]
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    Not being cocky, just replying to a point you raised.

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    Lady.Gasm.X [sign in to see picture]
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    him'n'her wrote:

    Not being cocky, just replying to a point you raised.

     

    There are ways of getting your point across without belittling people and making them feel foolish about their beliefs

    Also I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

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    him'n'her [sign in to see picture]
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    I had no intention of belittiling you in any way whatsoever and would absolutely defend your right to hold whatever beliefs you choose.

    I am also entitled to express my views without assumptions being made about me.

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    Laveila [sign in to see picture]
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    Lady.Gasm.X wrote:

    him'n'her wrote:

    Not being cocky, just replying to a point you raised.

     

    There are ways of getting your point across without belittling people and making them feel foolish about their beliefs

    Also I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

    I think she is right, and I dont think there was any intention to belittle anyone. Alcohol and cigaretes are socially accepted ways of getting high and are taxed. There is no larger mystery than that.

    And saying that, I only drink occasionally glass of good quality wine and never been drunk. But I do think people should have these choices. Unless they start to destroy the lives of others round them. Which can happen in case of alcoholism.

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    Lady.Gasm.X [sign in to see picture]
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     Fair enough, this debate is getting me a little defensive and i am sorry! I think I have made all the points I wanted to, and I have considered everything that has been said against it. I just find it frustrating because I don't feel like anybody is understanding me. But saying that, I would need to explain everything and in detail for anyone to understand what i'm trying to say. I will stick with what I have said about aspartame though... it would be good if someone non baist or 'neutral' could run some tests to prove if it is dangerous or not

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    him'n'her [sign in to see picture]
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    That was why I mentioned The American Cancer Society.
    I really doubt they have an agenda to defend the use of aspartame if they had even the slightest belief or knowledge that it could be dangerous. If they thought there was any doubt as to it's safety they would say so. If they were scared to "out" aspartame for fear of litigation, then they would decline to comment either way.
    Instead, they have acted on public concerns, done research and put forward their conclusion.
    For them to say it is safe, they must be certain.

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    Lady.Gasm.X [sign in to see picture]
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    OK hun x

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    sweetlove666 [sign in to see picture]
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     once again snopes is one of the sources i've looked at on this 
    http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp

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    him'n'her [sign in to see picture]
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    Interesting quote on that Snopes page from The Lancet "Our research revealed over 6000 web sites that mention aspartame, with many hundreds alleging aspartame to be the cause of multiple sclerosis, lupus erythematosis, Gulf War Syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, brain tumours, and diabetes mellitus, among many others. Virtually all of the information offered is anecdotal, from anonymous sources and is scientifically implausible."

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    Imogen [sign in to see picture]
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    I don't think people are meaning to get defensive, but some people have quite strong opinions one way or the other about these things, and obviously it can be difficult sometimes to not become a bit frustrated with people who disagree with you!  I know I'm certainly prone to that, have to really think carefully about what I'm writing to make sure I'm not coming across as an ass about things!

    I'm actually curious LadyGasm, what research is it that you've read with regards to the fluoride issue?

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    Imogen [sign in to see picture]
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    him'n'her wrote:

    Interesting quote on that Snopes page from The Lancet "Our research revealed over 6000 web sites that mention aspartame, with many hundreds alleging aspartame to be the cause of multiple sclerosis, lupus erythematosis, Gulf War Syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, brain tumours, and diabetes mellitus, among many others. Virtually all of the information offered is anecdotal, from anonymous sources and is scientifically implausible."

    That is interesting to see, because I guess I was also guilty of simply believing what I'd heard about this issue, but when I think about it I've never looked into any official studies about it, whereas with other issues (like fluoride) I would never accept anecdotal evidence.  One of the lowest forms of evidence!

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    Ruby x [sign in to see picture]
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    Great debate could go on and on with this one,  I have to say Im with Imogen on the flouride point,  Please if you live in an area that doesnt have flouride in the water you should be using a flouride toothpaste :)

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    ClickClick [sign in to see picture]
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    There shouldn't be a debate, it's the gullible misleading the gullible with conspiracy theories and scaremongering. You can find similar issues with just about any food ingredient if you look. Aspartame is one of the most persistent it seems.

    For an enjoyable read why not have a look at this link from the Daily Mail (that most reputable of news sources) http://kill-or-cure.heroku.com/, sadly it doesn't include Aspartame.

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    rose hip [sign in to see picture]
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    Aspartame tastes foul and gives me seizures.

    As someone with chronic fatigue, I'll avoid anything I can that MIGHT be associated with it. Why? Because CF sucks that much.

    No one's ever given me a reason to eat it, only their conviction that it won't harm me. Why should I take the chance? Even if it doesn't harm me, it doesn't do me a bit of good.

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    Dee_licious333 [sign in to see picture]
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    Also, wow! Will always check my lubes now too! I have began to use flouride free toothpaste and flouride is also a dangerous substance. It builds up on the pituitary gland on the frontal lobe on your brain and basically 'dumbs you down'. I mean, why put it in our water? Something poisonous? It was used in the concentration camps as a way of controlling the public, making them easy to manipulate and eventually kill. What are they doing to us!

    I think you have to be careful what you say only because not all our water has flouride in it and flouride is good for our teeth. Flouride in large amounts is dangerous i agree but i am aware they add it to water in developing countries but not sure its added here, correct me if i am wrong. If it is added to water here then i hope it would be in very small doses.

    I dont drink coke, or use artificial sweetener and i rarely drink sugar free drinks with aspartame in. But as you say there are alot of foods that have this in and i doubt i would be aware. Something to think about .. for sure.

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    Imogen [sign in to see picture]
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    Dee_licious333 wrote:


    Also, wow! Will always check my lubes now too! I have began to use flouride free toothpaste and flouride is also a dangerous substance. It builds up on the pituitary gland on the frontal lobe on your brain and basically 'dumbs you down'. I mean, why put it in our water? Something poisonous? It was used in the concentration camps as a way of controlling the public, making them easy to manipulate and eventually kill. What are they doing to us!

    I think you have to be careful what you say only because not all our water has flouride in it and flouride is good for our teeth. Flouride in large amounts is dangerous i agree but i am aware they add it to water in developing countries but not sure its added here, correct me if i am wrong. If it is added to water here then i hope it would be in very small doses.

    I believe it is still added in some of the larger cities in England, but not in most of the UK anymore.  I could find out specifics of where but not right now, not enough time.  And it's usually about one part per million in water, so tiny amounts.  In toothpaste it's around 1400-1500ppm.

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    boing-boing [sign in to see picture]
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    Interesting stuff! Will be looking out for this from now on and trying to reduce my intake... which I'm hoping is already quite low as we're both pretty healthy!

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    WandA [sign in to see picture]
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    I don't come on here very often nowadays but the sheer number of opinion and vague anecdotes being passed off as fact in this thread 'compel' me to even up the score on behalf of anyone in favour of evidence based reasoning.

    1. I did look up it's safely. Aspartame is safe. him'n'her has wheeled out the names of very respected organisations attesting to the safety of the stuff but I shall include some actual science later on.

    2. Aspartame as faecal matter from GM E.coli ? No. Not faecal matter, that comes from animals. It may be the waste product from GM EC but that sounds like utter bullshit though (given the relatively complex structure of aspartame, think about it, it makes no sense for something to eat something complicated and break it up not down). Even if it is the waste product of GM EC, so what? The alcohol you drink is always the waste product of bacteria through fermentation. If you want to be poetic you can say that bacteria eat the complex sugars in the raw materials and shit out tasty, tasty alcohol. Yum.

    3. Studies, studies, studies. We need more than that. But while talking about studies here are some that disprove the assertions made (as a metaanalysis). http://www.gao.gov/products/HRD-87-46

    4. We do not have 'dormant cancer cells'. We have cells. You cannot trigger a dormant cancer cell, you can encounter environmental factors that cause mutations in normal cells which, in turn, can lead to cancer. Cancer is simply a broad term for the name of uncontrolled cell growth. As most people know cells are constantly replacing themselves in your body, that's a good thing, but it's not a good thing when cells 'malfunction' and grow out of hand. We used to have some fantastic biologists here, where have they all gone!?

    5. Anecdotes. I'm sorry but people suffering from such subjective conditions as headaches just do not cut it as evidence (in almost all cases). For years people have been complaining about kids going hyper due to sugar. What is the biggest indicator of parents report hyperactive kids? It's if you told them you have given their child sugar... regardless of actual sugar intake.
    The above sounds a little defensive, I apologise, I respect people's person subjective beliefs if expressed as such but not when someone presents subjective experience as fact.

    6. Even if the not-very-plausible-sweetner-making-E.coli exists the fact it is 'not natural' is irrelevant. I don't want to go off in to the safety of GM organisms but I will say to attribute a lack of safety due to it's unnatural origin is a prime example of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy . Natural does not equate to good.

    7. Gum causing ulcers? I've heard this before, I'm not sure if this is possible but I do know that most ulcers are not caused by stress or gum. Most are caused by a bacteria. It has all the hallmarks of an urban myth but I can't see information to back up either side.

    8. Fluoride is safe in the doses the vast majority of people in the world encounter. It has the potential for great public good. I can't find a single reliable source stating the use of fluoride by the Nazis. Regardless of this, I'm sure with good research the same conclusions concerning safety around aspartame can be found for fluoride but I'm not spending the same amount of time on that too. 


    However I will say that the biggest single indicator of believing in a conspiracy theory is believing in other conspiracy theories. I'm just making a small point on fluoride to make the wider point that all claims such as these need to be challenged.

    9. The point about alcohol being dangerous but legal? Another fallacy like the naturalistic fallacy. A red herring. Alcohol's status has no bearing on aspartame; cannabis, ecstasy, 'agent orange' are all restricted here, that means nothing. Alcohol, as a drug, is a historical quirk, it's popular, easy to produce and always has been. Prohibition would not work or be politically popular.

    My lovely partner (hello Ad!) is a scientist, a proper one with a labcoat and everything. ;) (damn, I anecdoted)
    She is not part of a global conspiracy to keep information concerning dangerous substances out of the public's hands. To suggest the there exists a worldwide conspiracy shows a contempt and lack of understanding for the workings of science and scientists. Throughout this thread anyone posting in support of how dangerous aspartame is has simply posted anecdotes and displayed massive flaws in scientific knowledge. It is only right that sometimes we let experts pass comment on the matters that make up their expertise rather than accepting what some bloke said at face value.

    Any further references needed. Do it your bloody self. ;)

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    2Wicked [sign in to see picture]
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     ^^ ^^

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